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Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

First, a correction to Almalexia Mages Guild: After the first two quests are solved, the steward doesn't explicitly send you to OE, but rather suggests both OE and Andothren (which are about the same distance from Alma, and should both be reachable on any level if you stay on the right roads). He might also give you a path description on a scroll (harder to forget than just dialogue) and something to deliver to an NPC in Roa Dyr or Othrensis (since it's on your path).

I don't know what quests OE should give. Here are my ideas for Andothren.

Placeholder names (sorry if they're against lore):

Ethalvora: Mages Guild steward in Andothren; Altmer; female. Has the same kind of professional interest for Daedric shrines that Edwinna Edbert had for the Dwemer. Helpful to the player and most other MG members, but arrogant towards those who don't share her thirst for knowledge and enthusiasm for magic. (Arrogant but not hostile - she's not a Telvanni. A certain sympathy for Telvanni can shine through, although she considers the MG superior due to its openness.) She has dialogue topics about all known Daedric ruins in Heartland, but not all of her replies are accurate and informative (she hasn't seen all of them with her own eyes).

Merannon: leader of Mages Guild expedition in a Daedric shrine; Altmer; male. A pupil of Ethalvora's: slightly overconfident of his intellect and a somewhat dependent character.

Q1. Ethalvora asks you for a specific book about Daedric ruins (a book that's supposedly very new, and that should be written specifically for the quest by somebody lore-savvy). There are two ways to do this: buy it at a bookseller's, or ask the author (who should live nearby - i. e., Thirr or accessible Heartland) for an author's copy (needs either high dispo or not-too-low mages guild rank). She suggests both of these ways.

Q2. After you've delivered the book to Ethalvora, your next quest is helping a new student of the guild with his/her (I'll say "his" from now on, but it can be any sex) destruction training: You'll have to stay inside a specified area (a circle? a pentagram?), and he will cast shockballs on you. You have to let the shock hit you at least 5 times, and dodge it at least 5 times. If you leave the circle, the shooting stops and the counters are reset (so you have start anew). This isn't very trivial to script, but should be doable. (It should be harder to ensure that no bystanders are hit. This might even require some interior changes.) Ethalvora suggests you use this as an occasion to train your restoration and resistance spells (and maybe teaches you some). You're not to defend yourself. Still, the student will heal himself if his health gets too low (e. g., if you use reflection).

Dialogue with the newcomer (optional) reveals that, as new as he is, he has already picked up the elitism of the club. That's important for Q5.

Q3. After Ethalvora has spent a few days reading the book you got her, she admits (with visible discomfort) that she is stuck at some cryptic formulation. You are to go and see the author, and ask him to explain it. He gives you a less cryptic explanation, but diplomatically suggests that Ethalvora seems to lack the patience and readiness to learn necessary for mysticism and things might not always be as simple as she wants them to be.

Q4. First "hands-on" quest: A Mages' Guild expedition is trying to figure out the secrets of a Daedric shrine - I am thinking of the Sheogorath shrine in Roth Roryn, but of course it needs some editing for the quest to work -, but they are not getting anywhere. This quest is a good place to familiarize the player with some parts of gameplay that are easy to miss if you're not reading walkthroughs. First, you are told by Ethalvora to get an enchanted (charged or not), silver (unfortunately, Nordic Silver doesn't work; well done, Beth) or daedric weapon to protect yourself against daedra if you've run out of magicka. The shrine, though, is completely safe: the expedition has already cleared the place. (But you'll need this tidbit of gameplay knowledge sooner or later.) The leader of the expedition, Merannon, tells you that there must be some hideouts in the ruin, because he is casting Detect Enchantment spells and seeing some enchantments behind a wall. (Second gameplay quirk learned: using Detect Enchantments to detect hidden paths.) You are told to try levitating (you are given 3 potions maybe) and look for some alcoves/recesses near the ceiling. (Third gameplay quirk learned: always levitate in Daedric ruins.) You do find such a recess, which leads you to a ventilation-shaft-style walk above the ceiling of the room you were in. At the end of the walk, you find some stupid enchanted artefact (Sheogorath-style, e. g.: a cuirass with constant-effect "disintegrate armor on self" enchantment). When you pick it up, it summons a scamp (you didn't forget the enchanted weapon, did you?). You report back to Morannon; he is irritated: All the time, he was trying to figure out some clues from the books that are spread across the shrine, but then you came along and just found the "treasure" by flying around. He is relieved that, at least, the treasure was a joke. Sheogorath was pulling his leg and he was too sure of himself to notice. The expedition can now go home (and does so when you start the next quest and leave the MG building). You return to Ethalvora.

Note: It seems to me now that the above-mentioned shrine (i4-263) isn't very suitable for adding hidden stuff. But 4-37 has a Daedric shrine which seems to not have an int yet, so it could be made with the quest in mind. It is between Kartur and Verarchen, so it shouldn't be too tough to get to. Though, it doesn't have these Sheogorath books... Maybe we can add a new room to the i4-263 shrine?

Q5. Your classmate (the one who was trying out his shockballs on you a few quests before) has got himself into trouble, and it's not the fun kind of trouble. He did something the guards consider a crime but he doesn't (Daedra summoning in a city? summoning undead? practicing Open spells? frenzying people for the lulz?) and fled town before he could get arrested. Ethalvora tells you to convince the guards that her student was right. While this is not impossible (at high disposition, guards will direct you to somebody higher up, who, again at high disposition, will clear the student's name), there is a better way. (If you fail to convince the guards, you get a quest update telling you that you should ask for a second opinion or just pay the bounty.) Ask anyone else in town and you're told to try paying off the bounty at the barracks or at the Thieves Guild. Once you have cleared his name, you have to find the fugitive. Ethalvora tells you to check out all caves around town (again, helpful in principle, but not very practical); you can again ask the locals for more precise informations. You find the mage. He has not turned rogue, he has not surrounded himself with daedra and he does not attack you. (We have too many renegade mages of that variety already; let's make a Chaotic Good this time.) He trusts you and returns.

You might also send him back to town without having cleared his bounty, thus having him run into arrest, but this nets you a BIG disposition decrease from Ethalvora (she basically considers you a traitor).

Q6. Here's something you might already have expected: Ethalvora tells you that people are getting suspicious about the Mages Guild lately, what with her uncanny interest in Daedric shrines. (What she doesn't tell you is that her attitudes and those of her disciples don't help.) She believes this can be solved by bribing several Hlaalu nobles with daedric weapons. (Apparently, this will cause some cognitive dissonance which, since Hlaalu can't reject such generous gifts, will convince them that studying Daedric shrines is good.) The reality is not that simple, again. Ask around and you can learn what will really convince the nobles. Some indeed will gladly take the weapons; other will have specific wishes (books? cursed diamonds for their collections?); some will be much better convinced through a short discussion. We'll need to know the characters of the nobles first to decide the details of this.

I haven't thought about where to go from here, but that's really far away. Some more journeys to Daedric shrines (this time alone and with no handholding) are a must, but there might also be a kind of dramatic finale (Ethalvora getting corruped by some Daedra? some of her students? vampires in the guild and Ethalvora doesn't notice?), or not, depending on what we want. A bigger problem is that I have no idea what exactly Ethalvora is searching for in all those ruins, and idle curiosity can only bring us so far, but I assume this can be figured out as well.

I won't be butthurt if much of the above gets scrapped; but I'd prefer the quests not to be replaced by something less beginner-friendly. Andothren is TR's Balmora, and there should be something like Ajira's quests to accustom the player to the game, not simply another medium-difficulty questline.

As usual, I can do scripting, but I can't write books and my dialogue isn't good either.

Note: If we want an MG questline with stress on Daedric shrines at all, then Hlaalu is the best place for it to be, since its populace is probably the most open-minded with regard to that (except Telvannis, where the MG would have other troubles, and Old Ebonheart, which is too far from Daedric stuff).
Post Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:30 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

This isn't really substantive with regard to your post, but Andothren is easily a greater distance from Almalexia than Old Ebonheart, since the former is on the far side of the Thirr and the latter is on the same side of the Thirr as Almalexia. To get to OE they can follow roads straight over land toward the city. To get to Andothren, however, they'd have to travel due west through Othrensis to Almas Thirr, cross there, then go due north to Andothren.
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Post Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:03 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

You are right. What I was trying to say is that, since noobs shouldn't go through the Inlet Bog, they'll end up taking a detour to OE through Othrensis and Roa Dyr, which makes the way (almost) as long as the one to Andothren. (Almas Thirr isn't exactly on the way from Roa Dyr to OE, but it's not far away. I'd favor a few quests that direct people to Almas Thirr actually.)
Post Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:15 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Okay, I think I've got a better idea for the Sheogorath shrine in Roth Roryn. Let's use a different Daedric shrine for Q4. (I recall seeing at least two in the TRV. Is a Sheogorath shrine among them?)

Q7. Two Imperial tourists have went sightseeing into a Daedric ruin with a Dunmeri guide. They have not returned since, and you are to find out what happened. Suspicion is that they have been led into an ambush by their guide.

Once in the entrance hall of the ruin (TR_i4-263-Hla-1), you are forcegreeted by the guide. He says that the tourists are in the Library (TR_i4-263-Hla-2), and despite all his trying he is not able to get them to leave. They have been looking for souvenirs and have found three volumes of the Sixteen Accords of Madness, and are desperately searching for the rest of the series. You can go down into the Library and check that this is the case. The tourists tell you that they need only one more book and they'll go home. Persuasion doesn't help.

You return to Ethalvora, who suggests you to tell them that there are only 3 volumes. (At least, there were only 3 volumes in Shivering Isles, and that's all we have.) The strife for perfection and order has always been used by Sheogorath to drive people into madness, and chances are this is what is happening in the ruin right now.

You return to the ruin, but again the tourists don't change their minds. (They might have become more fanatical by now, and are burning all books that are not the 16 Accords.)

Return to Ethalvora again. She says that since there seems to be no better way, you should cast a scroll of area-effect Divine Intervention on the two tourists. She gives you a scroll that teleports you and both tourists to the nearest Imperial shrine (scripted, like in the "Kidnapping Mala Mirandus" quest).

You cast it and you end up, together with the two tourists (who are now praying to Sheogorath to write the missing books for them), at the nearest shrine (Fort Noobmoth?), where some friends of theirs are waiting for you already. At this point the questmaker should decider whether the tourists have regained some reason (after all, they are physically far from the shrine now) or are still insane. Either way, you get your reward at the MG.
Post Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:27 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

These are very nice quests arvisrend.

Would it not be to cliche to assume Ethalvora is looking for clues about location of some legendary and lost daedric ruin, which would contain say some powerful tome, that would enable her to travel between daedric realms safely and freely?

In each of the ruin you would be looking for some clues and texts that would hint at the location of this (well-hidden)ruin and some puzzles that have to be passed in order to get to the tome, or perhaps information on how to fight its guardians imbued with special powers and resistancies. This place may be created just for the purpose of this quest.

Maybe originally the expolrations are driven purely by Ethalvora's curiosity, but during the first stages of the quest some hints about this tome are discovered and Ethalvora begins to seek for it secretely. Player must put the pieces of information that he 'accidentaly' finds on the missions together to get the idea what is going on. In the end he may either side with her and explore the ruin, or conclude this plan is way too mad and dangerous and try to stop her. Or just miss the overall picture and do nothing and than face some dull consequences of his ignorance.

May I also suggest a following quest idea:

For some ruin exploration you may be asked to hire some muscles, because the ruin you are about to explore was not been quite cleansed yet. Mages guild could certainly handle that, but they do not want to risk lifes of their members.

You are given a list of possible candidates for the job (say 5-7), all skilled adventurers of different professions (warrior, archer, monk...).

You are about to locate these candidates, see which of them are fit to join the expedition, choose two of them and hire them. This would be a great opportunity to visit some settlements and points of interest and talk to the locals. Some of the candidates might straight refuse the task, some will join for a money, some will need a favour first (pay a debt for them, defeat them in a duel...).

As soon as you hire two of them your task is finished.

In the next quest, which will be the expedition, they will join you. You have to pick carefuly not only on basis of their skills, but also on a character. A barbarian drunkard may not turn up, because he will get wasted, the thief will be seduced by the treasures and when the ruin will be cleansed he will try to grab some artifact and disappear (you will have to find him afterwards) a cowardly helaer might chicken out during the heat of the fight etc...

This offers player a plenty of choices, which he will make on basis of his observations and which will affect the latter quest, but will have no great impact on the progression and outcome of the questline.

Post Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:43 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

I agree that the last Daedric shrine should be an obscure and lost one. There is a nice isolated vale in one of the pine-forest extra cells on the western border of map 4; I think it's a good place for that. (We don't need a Daedric ruin in the ext; it's lost, so it's better to have it completely subterran accessible through some cave only.)

Hiring muscles is also a fine idea, although there should be the alternative of taking out the bosses on one's own.
Post Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:52 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

Dumping work in progress text for the book here for the time being. It's far from done, just want to know if this is the sort of thing you want.

Contrary to the beliefs of armchair “Daedric scholars,” the architecture of Daedric shrines is not designed to instill fear in passers-by. Neither is it a mortal mimicry of the buildings found in Daedric realms, the fabled facades of Aldmeris, or the rocky pillars found in the caverns which were our earliest temples. In truth, the forms of Daedric ruins are not architecture at all: they are instead a divine mathematics, a function graphed on the planes of the world, meant to bend the Mundus towards the Voids and enable the worshipers to lay physical hands on the figurative bodies of the gods.

The power of the temples, shrines, and relics to channel prayers has, of course, long been established, both through scholarly experiment and through endless anecdotal evidence. However, while the effects of the temples of Eight and One, as well as other cultural gods, stem largely from the mortal’s belief in the god and residue of the god’s power upon the holy site, the power of a Daedric shrine comes from its design. Communion with the Anticipations, particularly the Boethiah in the aspect of the architect-teacher, allowed the Chimer to build temples that would purposefully, not just accidentally, draw their god’s attention. Each curve of pillar, each angle, each niche is designed to echo the sounds of prayer, to amplify them, and to send them as a beam through the stars and into a specific Void in heaven. After a time, a well-built shrine does not require supplicants, for its walls will keep any whisper alive for generations. The eerie chanting adventurers and scholars hear within abandoned temples is just this.

The specific mathematics behind a shrine’s construction are exceedingly complex, and, as should be self-evident, highly volatile. No one should attempt to construct their own shrine, and everyone would be wise to avoid the most ruined specimens, [a few such shrines, both on Vvardenfel and the mainland.][More about how this works, in made-up complexity. Direct line to Oblivion via always-open dreamsleeve stream.][Comparison to Tonal architecture, “discussed at length elsewhere.”]

The effects of fractal prayer vary due to layout, decay, the mind of the recipient, and, most importantly, the Daedra being worshiped. An untrained scholar in a fully-functioning Sheogorath shrine can expect to feel confused in minutes; mania, dementia, paranoia, hysteria, schizophrenia, obsession, or hallucinations set in within the hour. Visitors to shrines of Mehrunes Dagon typically report feeling contrarian, enraged, spiteful, and violent; while shrines to Azura compel feelings of complacence, anticipation, and lethargy. These effects are due to the thinning of the barrier between Mundus and Oblivion, as well as the relatively stable dreamsleeve conduits between them. One who wishes to explore a Daedric ruins in relative safety (I cannot stress “relative” strongly enough - one is never safe when in the presence of the Lords of Misrule), one is advised to carry talismans of the Almsivi, whose pacts with and wars against the Daedra provide some measure of protection. Due to the unstable barriers between realms, it is not wise to use spells of teleportation (whether divine or otherwise) and scrying within the ruins, or to directly connect to the Dreamsleeve in the vicinity of the shrines.


I accidentally wrote in a couple things that may be quest cues.

In hoc signo vinces

"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
Post Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:12 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Yes, the style is perfect! Great work!

Not sure about "armchair" -- while I can imagine this invention not passing by Morrowind, the use of this word as a synonym for "theoretical" and "hands-off" has a somewhat RL feel for me. But you know better, I assume.

I liked the non-abuse of mathematical terms until "fractal". Fractals, however, are a completely different beast. Perhaps it is better to leave this word out completely.

Do we really speak of "prayers" when Daedra are concerned? Not "summonings" or "call(ing)s"?

I don't think you really mean "recipient" in "mind of the recipient".

At the moment, there is no gameplay element that would make teleportation out of daedric shrines different from teleportation out of any other place. We might think of adding some, though... I'd like the idea of Almsivi Intervention leading to some corrupted fake-Temple shrine in an Oblivion plane. Don't know what to do with such a thing in Morrowind, though.

One final thing: At the moment, there are very few things to misunderstand in the text, except maybe in the last paragraph. Could you add something mindbending into the text, for the Q3 quest?
Post Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:56 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2007

Location: Elsewhere

Armchair is nice if this is an Imperial scholar - but a native Dunmer wouldn't be so easy with language.

Main thing I'd change is not reference Dreamsleeve: it's overused by lore wannabes on places like BGSF, and when it's used well it's always in the highly cryptic texts that aren't going to be public knowledge to regular scholars of Tamriel.

a man builds a city
Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside

"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Post Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:14 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lady Nerevar
Developer Emeritus
08 Jun 2004

Location: New Orleans, LA

Armchair - wasn't sure about that, either. What I meant by it is a wealthy wanna-be with no real training who does most of his research out of books. Perpetuating bad info and lazy technique optional. I'll change it up. Would it be appropriate to perhaps make it something of a dig at people like Ethalvora, instead?

Now that you mention it, "prayer" does feel wrong on purely stylistic terms. Too mundane a term. I like calling, and maybe supplication? I believe that there are references to prayers towards the Daedra, though.

The obscurity of the Dreamsleeve is really a thing of perception. It first came up in Battlespire, and was treated completely casually (no different from the dream quest or traveling to Daedric realms). Nu-Mantia made it more mysterious simply by how it was written, but if you look at the text it's easy to see that plenty of people actually have access to the DS. It is something that a scholar-mage worth his salt would at least know about, even if (s)he doesn't know how to access it. Overuse is really the bigger issue for me in this case, especially since I am worried about shoving too much into the piece. I'll see about rewriting it to sound more mysterious.

More weird definitely planed.

Thanks for the quick feedback guys.

In hoc signo vinces

"you sex craved blue colored red eyed squirrel messiah of a fictional video game world!"
Post Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:04 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

I thought of Ethalvora as being rather competent in the practical side of things (battle magic, fighting Daedra, finding one's way through shrines etc.), but not introspective and diligent enough to grasp the subtleties of theory (which are rarely as simple as they look at first sight). Morannon is less experienced, though, but not an impostor either; he is genuinely overestimating himself due to positive feedback from Ethalvora. That's how I imagine the whole Andothren guild house: Ethalvora is charismatic and has this "we are the elite, the rest are fools" attitude which boosts her students' self-esteem often farther than it should go. Thus, Q4 and Q5.

Invocation is also a fine synonym for calling/summoning.
Post Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:16 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

Arvisrend, you really do have some great ideas. After reading this thread, I really like what Lady N has, and I think that it'll be perfect for the Q1 quest, (once the editing is complete of course.)

As I was reading down, I noticed how BC mentioned the Dreamsleeve and how most people of Tamriel may or may not know about it. How about that could be the "cryptic formulation" that Ethalvora doesn't quite seem to get? She therefore sends you to seek out the author and have him better elaborate on what the Dreamsleeve actually is. This also suits in quite nicely to the way Lady N already wrote the book; as though the reader is aware of what the Dreamsleeve is.

A minor question to the text that was written: should "heaven" be used in TES text? I'm aware that it shares the name of a few weapons throughout the games, but I don't recall it ever being in text or an actual place within the TES universe (I'm no lore expert so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.) Either way, I think that word should probably be replaced with something different, such as Aetherius or something similar, but I'll let the lore experts decide.

Now as far as the quests altogether are concerned, I really like what you've done, arvis. They fit in with quests and adventures that you'd typically expect to find at the Mages Guild, plus you really implemented the NPCs and personalities to better blend them together, which I thought was pretty neat. I personally like the sound of Q6; we could work in some dialogue for the citizens of Andothren during and after that quest is completed, which would have NPCs take notice when a Mage at the local guild hall actually has a warrant and runs off, instead of people just going about their daily lives normally. (Although going by your previous posts on other threads, I imagie that's probably what you had in mind all along.)

The last thing I'd like to bring up is that I really don't think we should have a "finale" for this branch. I don't know what we have for the other branches, but usually if there is going to be any finale, it'd take place at the primary branch HQ, while other branches simply tell you they have no more duties for you, perhaps giving subtle hints about things to come. (I'm assuming we have a finale for the guild planned out, although I really have no idea.)
The point I'm trying to make is that, yes it'd be cool to have Ethalvora become corrupted and it sounds like it'd make a great finale, but as you said, this is the Balmora of the mainland, this is where beginners will most likely flock to, which is why a finale of a local mages guildhall (a beginner one no less) just doesn't seem right to me.

Again, I'm thoroughly impressed and really hope that we can get some of these quests into claims if they haven't been already. Really though, you did an outstanding job, arvis.

Not another memory

...And so my bad karma gets worse
Post Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:41 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

I think the Akamora Mages Guild questline needs a finishing quest (one that can only be started after all the others are done) in which Francine actually moves over to Andothren (meaning this cannot be implemented before Map 4 is merged into the Mainland). This quest should

- be startable from Francine's dialogue (because Ranosa currently suggests she has quests to offer even if she doesn't), and

- inform the player about the reasons for Francine's arrest even if the player didn't find them on his own (which I think will happen rather often).

I am not exactly decided what the quest should look like; any ideas? I don't think Ranosa should be trying to keep Francine from moving, nor that she would be pushing her to; anyway these would probably make boring quests.
Post Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:40 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012

EDIT: nevermind, as arvisrend pointed out this one is already planned elsewhere (!!)

Since this branch seems to be very much about daedric stuff, here's an idea I had for an organic side-quest:

One man's trap...
The local Conjuration expert wants you to bring them a cursed gem. Any cursed gem. They've heard about daedric shrine offerings being protected and want to know how - whether it's an especially long-lasting conjuration trigger from the worshippers, or the Daedra themselves actually taking an interest in the offerings, weirdly enough (with the focal point of worship, or rituals involved, un/intentionally providing an intuitive gate from their plane... [insert any mysticobabble])
Or maybe they want you to bring them all the cursed gems you can find, in case one falls in the latter and more potent category? And then something can happen at a random point between 1-X gems brought? Or more special effects if you bring one of the trapped daedric weapons (reverse the gate effect, let you get momentarily "summoned" and stroll through a Dremora's quarters...? :p 20 seconds to grab all the loot you can find, go go)

(organic because they obviously don't tell you specifically where to get it. And if you've somehow already looted all the cursed gems in the world and they've ALL disappeared from the merchants you've sold em to... that's why it'd just be a side-quest)
Post Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:55 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

In Ethalvora's chamber there could be a garden with a circular boundary. In the garden, somewhat obscured by the flora, is a miniature Daedric shrine. Later in the guild's questline, when the player is on good terms with Ethalvora, she will invite the player inside. They will shrink down small enough (or, rather, teleport) to explore the garden and enter the shrine.

The ruin will come alive in large in an MH-type cell, with invisible boundaries at its circular edge. No teleporting or levitating beyond a certain height. Along with the shrine, the garden could also have some caves to explore. The player will not be able to see Ethalvora's quarters from inside the garden; instead there will be an alien sky or void.

The shrine could possibly be dedicated to Hermaeus Mora.
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