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Claim: q2-29-Imp Claimed by Rats
Maps In Group Map 2 at (3645, -1859)
Accurate map
Parent: 2-37-Ind
 Status: Approved, 100% Complete
 Faction: Imperial
 Quest type:
 NPCs:
 Dialogue:
 Files:
Name Size Last Modified
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_2.esp 96.9 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_5.esp 165.4 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_8.esp 206 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_4.esp 143.4 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_1.esp 46.7 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_6.esp 202.4 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_7.esp 202.7 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_10.esp 212.1 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_9.esp 208.9 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-29-Imp_Rats_3.esp 120.7 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
Description
Akamora Fighters Guild quests given by Laalalvo Irano.

Original design discussion: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23566
Last Edited by Why
(Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:58 pm) Post
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Author Message
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Original plans by Yeti. Yeti, you're still awesome.

Guild members

Laalalvo Irano (Rank: Guardian) – A female Dunmer Crusader who is an Akamora native. She used to be a member of the city guard but quit and joined the Fighter’s Guild due to it being too rigid for her. Her sister, Flaalsa Irano, is the current guard captain. Laalalvo believes that as a native Dunmer, she has the best chance of building the guild's reputation in Akamora. Despite being the leader of an outlander guild, Laalalvo still respects her native beliefs and customs and tries to run the guild within their boundaries.

Amiro (Rank: Defender) – A good natured Redguard Drillmaster who assigns the easiar contracts to members.

Circus Leonos (Rank: Swordsman) - A gruff and burly Imperial knight. Circus is only interested in winning glory (and money) through fighting. Also assigns odd jobs to guild members. Usually these jobs are tasks that he feels are beneath him.

Baren Dralos (Rank: Apprentice) – A female Dunmer women who makes her trade as a warrior. She isn’t native-born and has little connections in Akamora outside of the Guild.

Lands-With-Splat (Rank: Apprentice) – An Argonian who acts as the guilds’ smith.

Hozgub gro-Hazor (Rank: Associate) – An Orc warrior who joined the Fighters Guild very recently. Utterly incompetent, Hozgub is currently staying at The Inn Between along the road to the west of Akamora, due to his inability to locate the cave he was sent to for his first guild job.

Quests

The player starts out at the Akamora branch of the Fighter’s Guild by taking quests from Amiro and Circus Leonos. After completing the tasks (3 from Amiro and 2 from Circus) the player will receive 3 more difficult quests from Laalalvo Irano.

Please note that due to the confusing nature of the region around Akamora, players will need very thorough directions to wilderness locations.

Also, most of my quest names are mediocre and should be treated as placeholders.

Noble Protection
Journal Entry: TR_m2_FG_Irano1
object/script ID prefix: TR_m2_q_29_1_

The Telomas’ are a wealthy family residing in Telomas Manor in Akamora. Pilu Telomas, an Agent, believes someone is trying to kill her and her husband, Guvon Telomas. Because of this fear, she has hired the Fighters Guild to protect her family until they can leave the city for somewhere safer. After receiving the job from Laalalvo, the player will travel to Telomas Manor. Circus Leonos’ will already be there to back the player up by guarding Guvon Telomas on the first floor. The player will head up to the second floor to talk to Pilu Telomas. While conversing with her, Pilu will hear a noise from downstairs (indicated in her dialogue). When the player heads down to investigate he will find Circus Leonos and Guvon Telomas dead and two assassins to fight. The assassins will force greet the player, which will trigger another assassin to appear upstairs to kill Pilu Telomas (the assassin used invisibility or chameleon to sneak past the player. Not literally of course, but as an explanation for what happened). After dispatching all the assassins, the player will return to the guild to report the failure.

After botching the contract, the Fighters guild in Akamora will be put in a very precarious situation. Laalalvo will fear that unless the Guild determines who was behind the assassination, no one will trust them with protection again. Laalalvo knows that her sister, the Guard captain, can’t have her guards do a proper investigation because of the political climate in Akamora, what with all the cities’ powerful families fighting each other. Thus it will be up to the player to investigate. He/she will be given three tasks to perform that will lead to the culprit.

First the player will talk to the Guard captain, Laalalvo’s sister, about who would have a motive for killing the Telomas family. The player will learn of three suspects. Since Pilu Telomas worked as an Agent for the Senim family, the Senim’s main rivals, the Indarens are number one on the list. Then there are the Veri’s, the allies of the Indarens. Finally there is Selari Danaran, a Dunmer Agent who can found at the top of Akamora’s Guard tower and whose career was ruined when Pilu Telomas uncovered her spying on the Senims.

After determining who the suspects are, the player will move to talk to the Morag Tong to see if they know anything about the assassins. The guild members will say that they were never approached with a job on the Telomases but that the player should talk to Fedril Verothran, an unlikeable Morag Tong member who often keeps company with unsavory people. After a little coaching, Fedril will admit to knowing who the assassins were. He’ll describe them as low-class thugs that none of Akamora’s richer noble families would have hired. This will eliminate the Indarens and Veri’s as suspects

Finally the player will have to find evidence that points directly to Selari Danaran. After talking around town, the player will find out that Selari is talented at using Chameleon spells and thus she could have taught the thugs how to use them to sneak up and kill the Telomases and Circus Leonos. With this info in hand, the player will confront Selari who will attack the player (perhaps we can script her to use chameleon in the fight)? Anyway, with the culprit found out, the Guild’s reputation will be partially restored.

Akavorioc
Journal Entry: TR_m2_FG_Irano2
object/script ID prefix: TR_m2_q_29_2_

The player will be tasked with locating and killing the vampire Akavorioc. A bit of an urban legend in the area, all accounts point to him dwelling within one of the ruined manors of Dun Akafell. His precise location is within the basement of “Dun Akafell, Forsaken Manor.” Akavorioc is a level 27 monk, so the player should expect a tough fight from him. As a bonus, the player can also free the vampire’s cattle, or something.

Caught in a Web
Journal Entry: TR_m2_FG_Irano3
object/script ID prefix: TR_m2_q_29_3_

Laalalvo will tell the player about a Dunmer man named Surol Volayn, who is believed to have gone missing in the Valley of Mephala. Laalalvo believes that it is likely the work of worshipers of Mephala. Though she’ll stress that Mephala should be respected as one of the Good Daedra, Laalalvo will instruct the player to locate and rescue Surol Volayn and deal with the cultists behind his disappearance.

After fighting through hordes of Dridea, the player will find Surol Volayn in Shambalu, Shrine, at the foot of Mephala’s statue. When the player talks to Surol Volayn (after killing the Dridea in the shrine) the player will learn that the Dunmer is in no need of rescuing. As a worshipper of Mephala, he has been luring “rescuers” to the valley so that they may be killed by the Dridea for Mephala’s amusement (she loves elaborate plots, lies, and manipulating mortals to their deaths, after all). Surol Volayn will inform the player that he has no interest in killing him/her now that the player has uncovered the plot (Mephala would no longer be entertained by it). The player has the choice to leave Surol Volayn alone or kill him.

If the player kills Surol Volayn and returns to Laalalvo, she’ll approve of his death but will only be able to offer modest compensation since the guild didn’t get any payment from the job. If the player doesn’t kill Surol Volayn, he/she will return to Laalalvo to discover that the cultist will have sent in the payment for the contract out of being impressed by the player surviving his plot. The player will thus receive full payment for the quest.

NOTE: For this quest, someone might want to revise the enemies in Shambalu. Also maybe replace some of the creatures with leveled ones? If this needs to be done, don't do it yourself, tell us and we'll make the edits to TR_Mainland directly to avoid messy merges! ~Why
Post Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:02 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Just some remarks:

It's probably better to start these once q2-27 and q2-28 are merged. While q2-27 doesn't intersect with q2-28 (except that q2-28 shouldn't be startable before q2-27 are done; but that's easy to implement after merging), these here will intersect with both q2-27 and q2-28. First of all, my thinking is that after doing the q2-27 quests, the player should be directed straight to Laalalvo, without Circus as an intermediary. BUT if the player freed the slaves in q2-27, Laalalvo doesn't want to deal with him and he has to complete q2-28 first. If he brought back the slaves, he can do q2-28 and q2-29 in any order.

There should also be a moment in q2-29 when Laalalvo offers some comments about the preceding quests. This is probably best implemented when those quests are already merged into the Mainland.

The leveled creatures in Shambalu should all be of the TR_stc_ variety (i. e., only one creature per leveled list), since they are not interchangable. For example, boss dridreas are much bigger than standard ones and won't fit into most passages.

EDIT: If the player botched up TR_m2_FG_Amiro3 (capture the slaves) in any way, Laalalvo should sound VERY surprised that the nobles of Akamora still gave the Fighters Guild a contract.
Post Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:26 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

I'd like to claim this one if it's alright. As for what I'm going to do with it, I figure I'll do exactly what has been written so far. Everything seems pretty well thought out and good to go, I may improvise a little here and there depending on the situation, but ultimately I think I'll stick with what we've got here already.
Post Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I'm going to grant this, but be sure to check out q2-27. Its ending changes Laalalvo's view of the player quite a bit depending on how you choose to finish the last quest in that claim, and this should be reflected in dialog.

I'll get to reviewing & possibly merging q2-27 soon, hopefully.
Post Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:43 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Please also see my notes for Caught in a Web quest in FG discussion thread. The link at top of this thread - the very last post.
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Post Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Here's my idea of what consequences the choices made in q2-27 should have (some modifications might be necessary if the reviewer changes the journal of TR_m2_FG_Amiro3):

Case 1: journal TR_m2_FG_Amiro3 == 250. You have killed the slave. You don't get any quests, no matter what you do. Don't add any replies for this case; just make sure that you don't put any greeting above Laalalvo's "goodbye" Greeting 1.

Case 2: journal TR_m2_FG_Amiro3 == 221. You have turned the slave in. You should get the quests from Laalalvo, and at least the Aravel and Senim should consider you an ally.

Case 3: journal TR_m2_FG_Amiro3 == 160. You have freed slaves in the mine with the key you got from Heel-Kur. No quests, no matter what you do. Don't add any replies for this case; just make sure that you don't put any greeting above Laalalvo's "goodbye" Greeting 1. The Aravel and Senim are very unfriendly to you; as for the other nobles, feel free to decide what they think (some might even like you for messing with their opponents, but probably most won't be happy).

Case 4: journal TR_m2_FG_Amiro3 == 140. You have pissed off the Aravel and Senim by freeing the slaves, and you have pissed off the Indaren and Veri by implying them in your deed. Laalalvo only gives you quests after you have finished TR_m2_FG_Circus2 (if that's how it's called). Nobles (particularly of the above-mentioned four families) should be unfriendly.

Case 5: journal TR_m2_FG_Amiro3 == 120. You have freed the slaves and weren't discreet enough. Laalalvo only gives you quests after you have finished TR_m2_FG_Circus2 (if that's how it's called). The Aravel and Senim are not amused, and the other nobles' opinions on the FG may have suffered slightly (but haven't necessarily: that's up to you to decide).

Case 6: journal TR_m2_FG_Amiro3 == 100. You have freed the slaves. You can get quests from both Laalalvo and Circus, but if you ask Laalalvo for quests before you have finished TR_m2_FG_Circus2, she is skeptical and asks you whether you really mean to do it right this time (but gives you the quests nevertheless).

EDIT: Typos fixed. It's Amiro3, not Amiro2. Sorry.


Last edited by arvisrend on Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

[21:07] arvisrend: what are we doing with Miners Club?
[21:08] SamirA: that is an awful name
[21:08] SamirA: sounds like something some dorks would come up with as a highschool club for minecraft
[21:08] arvisrend: haha
[21:08] arvisrend: it's a little bar in Akamora
[21:08] arvisrend: completely devoid of NPCs
[21:08] SamirA: I see broken horn-rims and pocket protectors galore when i see that name
[21:09] arvisrend: apparently because the minors are all in the mines
[21:09] TF|Laptop: that is so dumb
[21:09] arvisrend: *miners
[21:09] arvisrend: wtf
[21:09] TF|Laptop: what kind of mine isn't run 24/7
[21:09] arvisrend: what a stupid typo
[21:09] SamirA: We should call it the Dank Hole
[21:09] TF|Laptop: the people in the bar are the ones who work the next shift
[21:10] TF|Laptop: its a kwama mine right?
[21:10] arvisrend: Akamora is mostly kwama mines
[21:10] TF|Laptop: call the bar the Kwama's yolk
[21:10] SamirA: thats a good one
[21:10] SamirA: I like it
[21:10] TF|Laptop: the miners are the center of the community
[21:10] TF|Laptop: also they all work under oppressive conditions in a kwama mine
[21:10] TF|Laptop: so it works on two levels
[21:10] SamirA: but it will definately need patrons
[21:11] TF|Laptop: with a name like that I expect business will pick up
[21:11] SamirA: that was my line of thinking

Why I'm quoting all this: can't we put the assassins there? (Selari in particular. Somebody who got fired from the guard shouldn't be hanging around in the guard tower.)
Post Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I agree with arvisrend. Also, do Kwama have yolks?
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Post Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Yes, this sounds good. I don't think there's any lore on Kwama yolk, so let's assume that they do.
Post Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:53 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

Well there are a lot of great ideas that everyone continues to throw in here. I like them all, and I'll do my best to implement all of them when I get a chance.

I'll be honest though; I'm working two different jobs and average about 70 hours a week now, so all I want to do is sleep. My schedule will go back to normal come the beginning of November/end of October. That being said, anything new that is posted here, I'll do my best to incorporate into the claim.

Also, if arvisrend's claims get merged into the main file, that would make my job a little easier, but if for whatever reason it doesn't get merged in by November, it shouldn't be too much of an issue, I can easily work around it.

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Post Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

q2-27 is now merged into the masterfile (see http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=308156#308156 ).
Post Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

Thanks for the update, I'll hopefully be able to start somethingn on it this coming week. My work schedule has been slightly less busy.
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Post Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:50 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Some more things.

First of all, I both like and dislike the fact that Circus Leonos dies during the first of these quests. I planned Laalalvo to give quests directly after the player is finished with Amiro's, provided he has done Amiro's last quest to the liking of Laalalvo. Thus it could be possible to get Circus killed before completing his two quests, which is a bad thing (these quests are not meant to be interrupted like that). One way to solve this is adding a new Laalalvo quest before "Noble Protection", which will be avaliable to the player before Circus' quests are done, but every quest beginning with "Noble Protection" will be avaliable only after completing work for Circus.

Now, before anyone starts doing this claim or thinking of a first quest for Laalalvo, I'd very much like to have some brainstorming with people like Not, Why, Adanorcil, N and whoever else feels able to contribute characters and plots for Akamora. In a nutshell, what I want to do is a grand conspiracy in Akamora masterminded by Mephala. I seem unable to get a grip on the details, though. The big picture should be that Mephala wants to teach the Imperials (whom he/she dislikes due to their linear thinking, straightforward acting and moral high ground, and of course their intrusion on Dunmeri soal) a lesson by stirring up the nobility of Akamora against them, but not in a direct "let's drive the Imperials out of Akamora" way, but rather by a net of various conspiracies and conspiracy theories. The Telomas, for example, still are unhappy about the FG for failing to protect Guvon, and don't believe that a lowly agent could pull off such a thing. They suspect another noble family of the murder and the FG of collaboration. Other noble families are suspicious of each other, and that stupid Imperial merchant from Circus' first quest has been murdered by someone probably believing he was a spy. Somebody has been tainting the Indaren-Veri kwama with diseases and the Indaren believe the FG was involved (not surprising if the player has already denounced them once in the questline). The Senim (and the Aravel?) actually know what's going on and are using this all to consolidate their power. Cliffracers are flying low over Akamora.

From this point on, I have basically no idea how to go on. What should be the player's role in this mess? How does Mephala want to force him to play along? I'd want a kind of Nash equilibrium: as long as the others behave as Mephala wants them to, the player can only lose if he doesn't play along, and the same holds for anyone else involved:

The FG wants to clear its name, and the easiest way to do so is to sacrifice a pawn, thus confirming the false accusations.

The Aravel family sees that the Imperials are getting ousted and if it doesn't take part in that, it will lose some of its power.

Several of the other families feel under attack and if they don't defend themselves, they will fail.

etc.

If the player plays along, he ends up somehow taking part in the ethnic cleansing of Akamora. If not, he will have to break this circle by convincing several people to behave "wrong" at the same time. This, however, is easy to talk and hard to walk as it comes to designing. And I've not even tried to figure out what should happen if the player does stupid things and ends up fighting the nobles in melee.

Should Laalalvo be the only NPC helping the player here? What about Flaalso Irano? Should Amiro and Lands-with-Splat be dead already, or should the player be forced in some way to kill them? Should some of them be in jail? (I don't want to repeat the Almalexia Crisis, but that is nowhere near settled either, and actually it might work out better if we avoid anyone getting jailed in Almalexia.)

So, any ideas for this are highly encouraged.
Post Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Would not this idea be more fitted to Indoril questline? In the old times of TR, each guild quest on map 1 should have had a political impact and it was a great mess.

I think it would be better to keep guild quests without direct impact on local politics, moreover if they have already been designed and partly also implemented.

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Post Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:10 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Theo wrote:
Would not this idea be more fitted to Indoril questline? In the old times of TR, each guild quest on map 1 should have had a political impact and it was a great mess.


The problem is that the pendulum has swung to the other side and it's not exactly gotten better. Helnim is 100% misc quests, and it's one of the most bland and lifeless towns because of that. The Helnim Gambit could have given the town a story. I know that there is some intersection with the Indoril-vs.-MG story in Almalexia, but I think these can be reasonably distinguished from each other (also, questing Almalexia is a bit far away, unfortunately).

Theo wrote:
I think it would be better to keep guild quests without direct impact on local politics, moreover if they have already been designed and partly also implemented.


The FG stuff already implemented doesn't really conflict with this except for what I said. As for your design, the stuff with the ancestral tomb can become an independent misc that becomes avaliable during the last quest. I just don't like the fact that the current designs leave too many loose ends and too little consequences; they do concern politics already.
Post Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:31 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Do not take me wrong. I would love to see some questlines, which actually do have some other impact that reward and advancement in the guild. If you feel you can pull it off, it would be great.
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Post Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Guilds are inherently political (and Great Houses are just huge guilds), so I think it stands to reason that they have some kind of influence (or on the surface, attempt to be related to politics. Like the Balmora/Imperial Legion line about doing something about the Camonna Tong) on local or regional politics.
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Post Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Hey Not, have you started implementing this stuff already? I sort of hope not, because arvis and me have been discussing his idea of involving Mephala in the city, and we realized these quests might have to change. Let's discuss it next time the three of us are on IRC!
Post Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:44 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

No I haven't, I was waiting for a consensus on what I was supposed to actually be doing as far as this claim goes. I guess the three of us will have to discuss something then.

I apologize, I somehow missed this post, and had no idea you've been waiting on me to get in IRC. Sorry about that.

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Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:36 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I wasn't, to be honest I had already forgotten about this, but yeah let's discuss! Razz
Post Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:49 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

I really feel as though this entire process is being over thought. This is a fighters guild, not a great house.

First, I want to say I like the quest ideas stated at the top of the thread, and agree that if a quest giver dies during a quest there needs to be some way to prevent that from happening before his quests are finished.

I don't like the inclusion of some sort of grand Mephalan plot. I like it for the quest stated at the top, but anything more feels like it doesn't belong here. Rather than city wide manipulation, I say we should simply focus on the plight of an imperial guild trying to make it in a town full of Indoril Nobles. I think this works particularly well here because of the number of noble families. Elsewhere with lower concentrations of nobility the guild would be able to function better as those outside of the top care more about the availability of services rather than political concerns.

Quest ideas in this line of thought.
Go to take care of a problem for some miners, come back to find it already done by private noble retainers. Alternatively, you are sent to check up on a guild member sent on the above mission and find him dead at the hand of noble retainers.

Noble that can be painted as the enemy hires the FG for a contract that is in fact a trap. Members have been killed before, but the trap has not been uncovered. Complete the mission for a normal reward, uncover that it is a trap either for hush money from the noble or to give the guild a way to increase their standing at the expense of the embarrassed and enraged noble.

Strange and/or amusing mine infestation. I think it would be wrong to have an FG in akamora without being sent to kill shit in a mine. Maybe scamps, we all like scamps right?

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Post Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

The thing I wanted to avoid was having just another questline with no consequence and no real meaning (like the jobs one gets at the bulletin boards in Dragon Age). I want to create a feeling of tension and expectation that goes beyound "what next, slaying a necromancer or exterminating some rats?". I don't think that the Fighters Guild should be all low-fantasy. But seeing that I am not able to come up with a plot that actually works, I am completely fine with "local" modifications rather than an epic overhaul. A nobles-vs-Morag-Tong story could probably be better made on the western side of the Mainland, where people are less likely to think in Dunmeri templates.

Still, at some point, we will have to decide what nobles have what characters (this has been only partly made so far, and partly by people like me who aren't exactly good at it) and who conspires against whom. I imagine the nobles having a common eggmine being allies, at least for the time being, but other than that we don't have anything determined yet, do we?

I like the idea with the trap job, although we already do have two quests made which involve eggmines. Maybe the Shambalu mission could be a trap by some noble (rather than the reclusive Mephala priest)? And at the end of the journey you get to kill the mastermind of this shit, so it actually does feel like a final quest of a questline.

About the missing quest (the one before Noble Protection, to ensure that the player can't start Noble Protection before doing Leonos' quests): what about hunting down a repentant murderer? Noble family X (no Morag Tong, just some random lowlife) sent a killer after Noble family Y long ago, and he has fled to one of the monasteries, but family Y does not accept compensation or remorse. The Temple probably won't be happy with you killing him outright, so you will either have to trick him into taking a walk with you, or harness the power of verbal abuse, or convince him to flee Morrowind. Does this look good? (The options given to the player are not unlike the ones in some existing quests, but I think the situation is different.)
Post Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

I don't mean to say the quests have to be simple and can't effect the community, I just think that the primary issue for an imperial guild in a town such as akamora with its high noble concentration should be acquiring/maintaining legitimacy rather than anything as grandiose as a town wide plot with far reaching consequences. Especially considering the leader is someone who quit the town guard I feel as though the guild here can't possibly be as well established, nor would it be perceived with legitimacy or to have quality.

As for who is plotting against who, I would need to look at the dialog that exists for the nobles and existing plans for the town, but without that knowledge, it seems a safe bet that everyone is plotting against everyone, though people sharing mines would be friendlier.

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Post Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

Thrignar Fraxix wrote:
As for who is plotting against who, I would need to look at the dialog that exists for the nobles and existing plans for the town, but without that knowledge, it seems a safe bet that everyone is plotting against everyone, though people sharing mines would be friendlier.


What dialog? Trust me, you don't want to see it right now.

Anyways, I like both ideas so far, but I agree with you, in a town like Akamora, perhaps it would be best to have the guild sort of, build up a reputation with the nobles if you will. That could include having interferance from freelance mercenaries that were hired by other nobles for the same purpose(s) as what you are currently being tasked out to do, I don't know.

But a plot involving Mephala and the Morag Tong, perhaps that really would be better on the western side of the mainland. I'm not saying to toss aside that idea, but maybe saving it for a better location would be better.

There we go, that's my take on this situation.

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Post Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:04 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Not wrote:
What dialog? Trust me, you don't want to see it right now.


And just what exactly is the problem with my dialogue? Very Happy

I admit that I didn't give them all an extensive amount of unique dialogue, though I felt that would be best done through quest dialogue. I was sort of worried about straying too far into LGNPC territory

Anyway, here is a brief plan for the nobles of Akamora I made when handling the NPC Claim. I’m sure it could be fleshed out in some areas, though it was largely based off an older plan.

Senim Family

Novas Senim is the current lord of Akamora who thinks his family is unassailable as Akamora’s leading family. Cares a good deal about aristocratic bloodlines.

Aravel Family

The Aravel family are close allies to Novas Senim. They jointly own the Aravel-Senim Egg mine. The Aravel’s owe their status in Akamora to their relationship with the Senims and wouldn’t have much influence in city politics otherwise.

Varen and Salenith Families

Low-tier noble families who jointly own an unproductive egg mine.

Arenim Family

Rich but unimportant noble family. One of Akamora's major players might want to recruit them.

Indaren Family

A wealthy family that is a chief rival of the Senim family, and are not above using unscrupulous methods to upstage them economically and politically. Both Seras Indaren and Novas Senim want a seat on the Indoril Council.

Veri Family

Allies of the Indaren Family. A noble family with limited resources that is trying to turn around fortunes by throwing their lot in with one of Akamora's main political parties.

Parys Family

Telera Parys is an economically industrious individual with a strong sense for commerce. She owns the Tiranat-Payrs Egg Min and has bought out the Underground Bazaar and the Laughing Goblin. A strong rival to both the Senims and the Indarens.

Tomaril Family

Sorvol Tomaril is the former lord of Akamora and a current councilor on the Indoril council. He has largely retired from Akamoran politics to his reclusive manor to the south. Holds a very low opinion of nearly every other noble family in the area.

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Post Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:16 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Oh, nice that you planned these things! I must correct one thing, though. If anyone should be in charge of the Laughing Goblin, then it would be the Arenim, since the Arenim Manor in Akamora is only accessible through the balcony of the Laughing Goblin.

Maybe it would be good to reflect more of the information you gave about the nobles in actual dialogue. At the moment, they don't have too much of it; almost all of them greet me with the standard "Akamora has quite enough of you outlanders", and the topic answers usually aren't very informative.

I think that the "danger" of LGNPCing is not a real danger with nobles. Higher-up and/or politically important characters can have arbitrarily much unique dialogue.

So let me see. A noble who is (1) badass enough to survive in a Daedric temple and (2) wishes the FG enough harm to send it on a fake "rescue" mission to Shambalu, who could it be? I guess only Indaren remains?

One final thing. What was Selari Danaran's motif in murdering the Telomas? Maybe we can make the Indaren really be behind this shit?
Post Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

There, I wrapped it into one package.

EDIT: I am thinking that player could get some bonus for finding out who the main villain is, before he reveals himself. As this cannot be properly done via quest-stages (how would we check that player figured out more than his ingame character?), I suggest that him knowing who the badguy is and expecting confrontation sooner or later, he could inquire deeper about him and eventually learn, that he may be under a special curse-blessing, giving him some substantial resistances, but making him, although he is a Dunmer, particularly vulnerable to fire.

For example in Akavorioc's chamber there could be a journal describing how he chose to become Molag Bal worshiper with sentence like : "Those fools who once called themselves my brothers and who chose to remain in her darkness, will never forgive me my enlightenment. They will call me a betrayer and send their minions to attempt to test my immortality. They cannot succeed! None of these rats will ever dare to confront me directly, for I know their weakness. I know that the so-called gift from their "mistress" is no gift at all, but a curse instead - a merely a mar of the cattle. My fire would burn them to ashes in seconds."

etc.



Akamora.txt
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Post Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

OK, so I have thought about these quests again, and again, and I wasn't able to make the conspiracy square. The final straw came from Why: how do we reconcile these quests with the House Indoril questline? At that point I noticed that I had never thought of that at all.

I like parts of your designs, Theo, but I don't like the idea that one cannot even kill the masterminds of the conspiracy (rather than just some of its executors) at the end. This doesn't do justice to such a grandiose adventure. Somehow your designs have the same problem as mine, they break down badly at the end. The treason twist that you added to the Akavorioc quest is quite cool and could be used for the Almalexia Mages Guild (I'll write about this some time later).

So, back to the original designs.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I think I now have an idea for the first quest of q2-29, the one before Noble Protection. Recall that the purpose of this quest is to ensure that the player does all the Circus stuff before Circus can die.

So, the Indaren have contracted the FG to kill some thug who has murdered one of their family some time ago. The problem with this thug is, he has repented his murder and has been granted church asylum in a monastery (Romithren Monastery?). He (or Laalalvo, better) will explain that he has offered to pay the 1000 gold, but the Indarens have turned it down (they want to make an example). While the Indaren more or less want you to attack him right in the Temple in front of everyone's eyes (this would kill two birds in one stone: the FG has been shamed in front of the Temple, and the Indaren have shown what they do to their enemies), you have two other options:

2) Lure the former thug out of the monastery and kill him at some point where you won't be seen. (There might be a speechcraft requirement or some social engineering necessary for this. If you want to make this more complex, make it so that some NPCs in the monastery would forcegreet the player, asking him where he is leading the guy.)

3) Don't kill him but help him to escape Morrowind. This won't remain unnoticed, however, and the Indaren won't be very happy.

Laalalvo's reactions should be mildly positive if you do 2 or 3 (successfully), and negative if you do 1 (killing the guy in front of the priests). Actually, she should suggest option 3 right away. This looks quite different from her behavior in the absconded-slaves quest, but you should keep in mind that Laalalvo isn't a "lawful neutral" character who wants you to follow every contract by the letter. She is a Dunmer and thinks like a Dunmer, and the sanctity of a monastery means much more to her than the life of a couple of useless slaves.

I don't think you need to paint the thug as a born-again believer. Just make sure that he has (credibly) repented his sins and chosen a better path. Whether he has joined the Temple is not that much important (though some references to Saint Aralor who used to be a murderer would be nice).

--------------

One note about the Akavorioc quest: I think it should be a challenge to the FG by some noble who really wants to shame the FG. The success of the player at killing Akavorioc should be a big surprise (Laalalvo should be leaping for joy) and should convince the (astonished) giver of the contract of the FG's worth.

One more note about the Akavorioc quest: please wait with implementing it until some changes have been made in the mainland file. Basically, Akavorioc should not be the Akavorioc which we have now.
Post Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:40 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

Well, concerning my quests in the end you have a sufficient evidence that one of the families allied with the heretic sect of the assasins. This is enough to discredit this family in public. As a result their bussinesses (Laughing Goblin) would be shut down and they would have to move out of the town.
Player could also have been given choice by Laavalo whom he could hand the evidence:
1] To her sister in the guards.
2] To any sufficiently influential family in Akamora (it can have various consequences).

As for arvisends quest. I like the moral dilemma, but you could introduce even more intrigue. In the temple you would also meet somehow shady and suspicious pilgrim. If you look through his belongings you will find out he has been hired by Veri family, who want to improve their reputation with Indarens.
You have following options:
1] To kill him (Veris will be mad, but they cannot afford to do anything against you as they have no evidence that
they hired this assasin).
2] Bribe him to give up his quest. Again Veris will not be to happy.
3] Do nothing (also if you do not notice him). After several days the victim is slayed in the temple. Veris proudly claim this and their position in town strengthens, but there will be no more contracts for FG from Indarens and Llaavalo is mad.

If you manage to kill the victim before the assasin does, Indarens will be happy, but Veris will not.
If you lure the victim out, suddenly this assasin appears and attacks him. If you kill the assasin, the victim thanks you and you have an option to kill him now, or let him go and accept his reward.
If the victim dies and the assasin survives, he tells you who he is. You can kill him or bribe him so that he did not report his success to his masters and the glory was all yours, or just leave and let Veris claim the responsibility.

If you decide to help the guy from the beginning, you will have to deal with this assasin anyway.
--------------------------------------------------------

But yes, I think having a basic idea about Indoril questline and the role of the Akamora prior this would be perhaps a good idea.

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Post Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:45 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Thrignar Fraxix
Developer Emeritus
06 Dec 2004

Location: Silnim

Theo wrote:
But yes, I think having a basic idea about Indoril questline and the role of the Akamora prior this would be perhaps a good idea.


Or perhaps we shouldn't be having imperial guilds in the land of a very anti-imperial house be demonstrating such a large ability to influence local politics in the first place, seriously. I see the reasoning for wanting a quest line and interplay with the town. Rather than killing or changing anything in the town, the actions of the player through the quests, thwarting sabotage and other problems, could lead to faction rep with house Indoril should the player join them. The quests could also be mirrored in the house indoril line, either taking the same side as the FG quests, or being on the supply side of trouble. Though this could perhaps be perceived as lazy, I don't think it is unreasonable. If the player completes the quest(s) with one group before getting it would be akin to doing any other quest before you get it. Hell, maybe there could be an FG quest for each of the largest potential conflicts in the town. I'm kind of just throwing stuff out here because I am sleep tired along with frustrated tired about how this has been stagnating so long.

And Theo why are you fleshing out a quest no one has been talking about at all prior when we are still trying to get the foundation for the claim on the whole. Lets hold off on specifics until we at least know how this is playing out at large.

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Post Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:10 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

Okay, I think I can work with all these suggestions and come up with some ideas of my own. But I need to sleep first, I've been up for 24 hours now. I'll post something later when I'm more awake and well rested.
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Post Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:26 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Right, allow me to get all executive and stuff, Not wants to start work on this. Sorry for being absent from the discussion here on the forum. Now, let's nail this down.

First, a thought. I think including Mephala in whatever is happening/going to go down between the nobles in Akamora is a potentially good idea. If we do this, however, the Imperial Guilds should not be directly influenced by her. Instead, they'll have to deal with the side effects, which, in the case of the Fighters Guild, would be trying to survive in a town where all the nobles are in an incredibly foul mood. The attention of the noble families is focused on eachother, which isn't to say they can't hold a grudge against the FG, but they're not in the business of setting up elaborate plots and hiring mercenaries and assassins specifically to harm the FG.

Having established that, I think the best course of action is as follows. I really like arvis' quest about the Aralor convert. In fact, it's a really good excuse to send the player to Necrom, Refuge of St. Aralor. Rather than convincing the dude to follow you, have him or one of the monks mention dude will go to <shrine outside Necrom> every evening, so the player can follow him and kill him out of town, if that's the path the player chooses.

Noble protection was good and can stay. However, maybe it's best to let one assassin from downstairs go straight for the lady upstairs, so that the player can save her. She should be shocked, obviously, so she won't have a lot of information for the player and the quest can continue along the previous plans. Just without the whole invisibility-chameleon thing which is kind of a gimmick. It should be hinted at that the person who hired the assassins used the tense situation between the nobles as a diversion, since the noble families would be logical suspects.

I also like the idea that the Akavorioc contract can be a challenge from one of the noble families. I think it's best if this contract was issued by the Senim family. I *do* want him to stay where he is, the Tayo will have to be moved elsewhere, probably the inner chamber of Dun Akafell, Chapel. This should be taken care of in TR_Mainland, I'll do that once I get to it. Proceed as if Akavorioc doesn't have the gemstone.

For now, I think it's best if we let Caught in a Web go. We can consider it again later, once we've worked out what exactly will happen between the Nobles (and maybe Mephala). Presumably they'll be involved in the Indoril questline at some point, or as a stand alone thing like Ranyon Ruhn.

So, wrapping up:

TR_m2_FG_Irano1 // TR_m2_q_29_1_ // Aralor refugee vs Indaren
TR_m2_FG_Irano2 // TR_m2_q_29_2_ // Noble Protection
TR_m2_FG_Irano3 // TR_m2_q_29_3_ // Akavorioc

Obviously, feel free to change those names, especially the first one.

Thoughts? OK?
Post Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:32 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

I'm all for it. I like the idea(s) and I'm glad we're finally getting a move on with this. My only concern is umm.....I'm not sure how well I'll be able to implement some things. My questing skills have died down a bit, since I haven't used them in so long.

Perhaps I should give up this claim and let someone more competent handle it? Otherwise, I can do most of what Why listed above, so yeah, it's up to you guys I guess.

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Post Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:38 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

nah you'll be fine don't worry
Post Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:47 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

I can help you with the scripting, should that be a problem. Also, for the Noble Protection quest, I don't think it is necessary to have two different outcomes depending on how fast the player is. I like choices, but this is less of a choice and more of a random effect (unless you script the lady to survive the attack, which is not very realistic for an unprepared noble). Invisibility is fairly common among thieves on Tamriel, so I don't think it's that much of a gimmick.

There are things you should decide for the Aralor quest. For example, how can the player find out that this guy is visiting the shrine every evening? Should he tell it himself or should the player question some other people? How much convincing should he need to get that information? On the other hand, if the player chooses to inform him that he is being targeted, should he believe right away or also need some persuasion?
Post Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:06 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Quick note - the Nobura Tayo has been removed from Akavorioc so as far as I know, this entire claim is good to go for implementing now.

Do you still want to make this claim? I'm kind of feeling like I could pick it up, I want to actually make quests again, so let me know.
Post Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:21 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Not
Lead Developer
01 Mar 2012

Location: Elsewhere

Why wrote:
Quick note - the Nobura Tayo has been removed from Akavorioc so as far as I know, this entire claim is good to go for implementing now.

Do you still want to make this claim? I'm kind of feeling like I could pick it up, I want to actually make quests again, so let me know.


Yeah, truth be told, this actually works out. I had worked on this only so far as making a Word doc. with all the dialogue and journal entries and conditions etc. set up. But my pc, being the awesome machine that it is (note the heavy sarcasm there) lost half my documents, including that one, the other day. So I've been kind of frustrated and unmotivated ever since.

So yeah, have fun Smile

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Post Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:48 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

One fun thing this claim could do is introducing some generic Akamora dialogue based on the player's actions in the FG (and possibly also hinting to the presence of these quests before the player has taken them). I suspect each of these three quests is sufficiently important to make headlines in town; some of the preceding quests (chiefly the escaped slave from the mines) can also induce dialogue (plus the dridrea quest). Akamora is quite a tabula rasa as concerning dialogue; even outlanders occasionally meet the player with the "Akamora has too many outlanders" greeting.
Post Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:31 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



I don't know if you're planning on returning to work with this, Why, but if you aren't I would like to take a motivated stab at this.

I really like this idea of the Guild being desperate to survive / prove itself in hostile territory. Will stick to the original plan with some selected adjustments that've been suggested in this thread. Will include a subtle Mephalain subplot/metaplot which will slowly unravel in the course of the events.

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