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Claim: q2-36-Imp Claimed by 6plus
Maps In Group Map 2 at (3927, -1583)
Accurate map
Parent: 2-23-Ind
 Status: Approved, 100% Complete
 Faction: Imperial
 Quest type:
 NPCs:
 Dialogue:
 Files:
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TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_4.esp 47.7 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_6.esp 54.1 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_8.esp 55.5 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_1.esp 33.7 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_9.esp 54.6 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_7.esp 54.9 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_3.esp 45.8 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_2.esp 41.1 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_5.esp 52.7 KB Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am
Description
Third claim for the Akamora Guild of Mages.

Guild NPCs:
Ranosa Orrels, Dunmer, Wizard, Enchanter service and Guild Steward.
Francine Aldard, Breton, Journeyman. Talented Mage yet slightly unaccustomed to Morrowind. Left the service of Rilmas Athyrion in Marog after a very short apprenticeship.
Polodie Floine, Breton, Apprentice. Alchemist, sells potions.
Mjara, Khajiit, Apprentice. Guild Guide. Escaped slave, used to be the property of Rilmas Athyrion.
Varona Andarys, Dunmer, Associate. Alchemist, offers training.
Last Edited by Why
(Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:12 pm) Post
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Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

For the sake of completeness, the discussion that led to these designs. Feel free not to read it, I'm just linking it so it doesn't get lost in case we do want to refer back to it.

Claim three, TR_m2_Francine_Kington quests. Her last name is actually Aldard, because Kington isn't really that good a name, but the ID will remain unchanged.

Characterizing FA: Francine Aldard (TR_m2_Francine_Kington; change her name) is a newcomer to the MG, specializing in Mysticism. Before she joined the MG, she used to be one of many apprentices of Rilmas Athyrion (the Telvanni lord of Marog), but it's not like he actually cared for her research, so she got disappointed and left. Mjara, the guild guide, is also a former slave of Rilmas, whence the two know each other, but no, she hasn't helped him escape.

Francine is a Breton and was raised in a cultured family in High Rock; she has little grasp of the Morrowind way of thinking. She has a more, so to speak, Imperial way of thought (which doesn't mean she is stupid or naive). She is a rather talented mage, in fact.

TR_m2_MG_Francine1 - Letter of Resignation
Francine has written a letter to her former Telvanni mentor Rilmas Athyrion in which she apologizes for (as she feels) deserting him and explains the reasons why she had to go and how she hopes he isn't offended. It's not sucking up; she really thinks this way. Ranosa has taken notice of this and wants you to deliver the letter instead of having her bring it over herself, because she thinks this is safer. So you prepare your levitation magic, go to Marog and give the letter to Rilmas Athyrion. Culture shock: he is not offended and doesn't feel betrayed at all; he is baffled that anyone would waste his time writing him letters of resignation when he could just leave him alone instead; depending on his character he might even tell you that he wishes some of his other useless apprentices would follow Francine's example instead of bothering him further.

You return to Francine, this time getting a reward from her (a set of powerful scroll of Calm Humanoid she has enchanted herself). She is genuinely surprised; this is not how she imagined her former master would react.

TR_m2_MG_Francine2
This quest becomes available after TR_m2_MG_Ranosa2. Don't worry about dialog conditions for initiating this quest, we'll take care of that after it's merged into TR_Mainland. Just make sure 2 happens after 1.

Francine needs your help with her research into the buildup of residual energies in locations that experienced prolonged exposure to magical rites, and asks you to go to Necrom and find someone who will allow her to tour the bonewalker smithies and take some measurements. She'd do it herself, but she's leaving for Alt Bosara to speak with an expert on the subject (don't bother disabling her). The player goes to Necrom and asks around. They'll be directed towards TR_m2_Bradys Hlaalo, who'll write a letter respectfully telling Francine that the Temple does not see the merit of her research and that while Necrom is open to anyone he, the head priest of the charnelworks, will not appreciate it if the Guild starts taking measurements uninvited and unsupervised. He will tell the player that they are free to look around the smithies, as long as they don't touch anything and don't disturb the priests.

TR_m2_MG_Francine3
Returning to the Guild, you find an irritated Francine who has been arrested by the guard while on an expedition to the north and incarcerated at Windmoth Legion Fort. She has broken out, obviously, by the use of a simple recall spell, but she still has no idea what she was accused of. [Possibly, she has been told some accusations, but they make too little sense to be believable, so she is looking for the real reasons.]

The player is sent to Fort Windmoth's commander (Arvs Rethrathi) for an explanation.

Case 1: Arvs Rethrathi is alive. Then, if you ask anyone but Arvs in the fort about Francine, you'll be told to talk to Arvs. Talking to him, you don't get any useful answer, but instead, knowing that you come from the Guild, he asks you to pay her bounty (quite a hefty sum). If you decline, he'll say you're no longer welcome in the fort and order you to leave.

Case 2: Arvs is dead or disabled in any way. This is an important case to check for, because when we make the Imperial Legion questline, there will probably be a "purge the Windmoth Fort" quest, and Arvs might easily end up dead in that. In this case, of course, you don't get directed to Arvs anymore, but instead the other people in the fortress tell the player they know nothing about the allegations.

Fort Windmoth is completely corrupted and lawless, so the accusations brought up against her need not have anything to do with the real reason of her arrest. The real reason for her arrest is that Rilmas Athyrion figured, in true Telvanni fashion, that the only reason Francine would apologize to him is because she has wronged him and fears retribution. He therefore deduced that she's had a hand in Mjara's escape. There should be a letter from Rilmas Athyrion in Arvs Rethrathi's office that reveals this.

If you did not find the letter, Francine will thank you for your effort, and be slightly worried and confused, fearing the Telvanni are after her, and give you a modest reward. If you did find it (no need to actually bring it to her, reading it should be enough) she'll tank you, and decide never to go north again.
Post Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:12 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Claiming

do you have anything in mind for case 1 of quest 1? disposition drops, hostile greetings for other legionnaires, arrest the player? or is it up to me?
Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

You mean quest 2, right? Check out Fort Windmoth ingame, get the latest-rumors quest, try to get a feeling for how people at the fort behave. I think arresting the player creates too much trouble for its worth, unless you can pull it off well (don't use the regular bounty/arrest system then) -- but you'll have to do some interioring for that; I don't believe the quest needs to be that complicated. Keep in mind that the legionnaires at Windmoth are half-bandits squabbling with each other, and pissing off the leader doesn't necessarily translate into pissing off everyone.
Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I think you're both talking about quest 3. Razz

I was a bit apprehensive about arresting the player because it'd ruin the goody two-shoes player's perfect records. Maybe if you provoke the guy through dialog enough he'll try to have you jailed, but definitely give the player a polite option that doesn't get them in trouble.
Post Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:58 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

OK, so let me suggest something strange: 6+, can you start off by writing Francine Aldard's resignation letter, and possibly some dialogue (4-5 replies?) accompanying it, without yet implementing anything in the CS? You can do this while the quest stays in Pending; once you're done, we'll grant it if the letter seems to fit.

Thing is, this is one of the quest claims where writing matters the most; I am 100% sure you can do the scripting right, but this claim needs its dialogue (Francine, Rilmas) top-notch and expressive. I'm happy to see you're trying your hands at it, but I think this needs feedback (honestly, I am also afraid my descriptions of the characters weren't good enough to not be misunderstood).

And yeah, I've been meaning quest 3. Ooops!
Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:08 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



No problem, it'll take a few days however
Post Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Here's the letter:
[In this letter Francine explains why she left master Athyrion.]

And if you don't like that , I've written a longer version too...



q2-36_Letter.pdf
 Description:
Letter to Athyrion, some dialogue replies

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 Filename:  q2-36_Letter.pdf
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Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:59 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Hmm. The Francine I imagined would be a lot less judging and a lot more self-critical in that early phase of the questline(!). But this is not a problem: with all of Francine's quests in one claim, there are no contingency issues and you can change the character as long as it feels right. And I don't think you've made it worse, so as I said this is not an issue. There's some parts of the letter that I'd want changed, though; I'll come back to it later.

Add "in Marog" after "In fact noone seemed to care for anyone else".

I'm not happy with "measurement results"; magic in MW might be much like science IRL, but I don't think it uses the same terminology.

Do apprentices have personal laboratories to lock?

Maybe remove "illusion"; that's a perfectly legitimate school of magick ;)

Improve this sentence: "Your assistants just laughed at me and told me that You were to busy to be bothered with my silly problems." (Not just the "to" that should be a "too", but the general style.)

Comma before "I thought that then I'd be heard" should be a semicolon (this is one of the cases where a wrong comma actually makes the sentence hard to parse).

"Mage's Guild" should be "Mages' Guild" or "Guild of Mages".

This sentence has a missing comma and too much fluff to doesn't belong in Morrowind: "I know that, if You knew better about the situation of Your apprentices You'd change everything and guide us to a more harmonic and therefore more fruitful cooperation." Try replacing this by some thoughts on how Francine totally understand that this is the ways of House Telvanni (so Athyrion is not to blame) and she should have thought of that earlier, but she feels this is not her way. Francine did join House Telvanni in the naive hope that it would be a friendly and rewarding place to work at, but in five years she surely must have learnt better. She is smarter now in that respect, though not self-confident enough to not see herself at fault.

What do you mean by "titanic"?

The following paragraph continues the "let's be friendly and harmonic" line which I would prefer not to see in the letter: "I hope that at least by sending You this letter I'm able to do that which I should've done already three years ago: giving You the information and hence the opportunity to change the situation inside the tower of Marog. I'm sorry that I'm no longer by Your side to assist You in this task, but perhaps I'm not the right woman to do it anyway." At least from my perspective, Francine (1) is not as naive as she was when she joined the Telvanni and (2) isn't megalomaniac enough to give Rilmas advice on how to lead the tower.

Add comma before "the only thing that's left for me is to apologize to You".

Why the "You" capitalization all the time? I don't think this is a polite form, outside of religion maybe.

Last sentence: "Not against You did I fell a decision , but only against the demeanor of my colleagues." This is OK (just remove the space before the comma), though I'd prefer Francine not to scold her colleagues too much -- as I said, now that she understands the ways of House Telvanni, she has only herself to blame for even joining the house.

In total, I like the letter; there's been a lot of improvement since your previous efforts at dialogue. Some lorehead might want to contribute to this discussion, but I don't see anything else wrong about it.

Now to the dialogue:

Quote:
Francine Aldard - Journal < 10
"Let me tell you my story %PCName. Oh, you don't have the time? Well, the short version
will do. You know, %PCName, I used to be a member of House Telvanni. I was an
apprentice of master Athyrion in Marog, but I had a hard time there; so in the end I left
Marog and joined the Mage's Guild instead. I'm sure it was a good decision, but still I fell...
guilty about it. Perhaps I shouldn't have left without saying a word... And that's where you
come in: I want to set it all right. I've written this letter to master Athyrion saying everything
I already should've said. But, for some reason Ranosa doesn't want me to go to Marog
myself; would you please do it for me?"


I don't like this, sorry. Not just for the missing comma before "%PCName". This whole "You know" and "And that's where you come in" stuff doesn't fit the character, imho. Sorry, I don't have much of an idea how exactly she should talk, but I think not this way. She is a mystic, so try playing around with a more antiquated, philosophical and otherworldly style of speech; hope this makes any sense at all...

Quote:
Rilmas Athyrion - Journal = 10
"[You give him the letter, he starts reading, then stops and starts anew.]
What's this about? Did I get this right? This Francine Aldard is trying to apologize to me? I
can't remember one Francine Aldard offending me anyhow. Interesting. Hm... Francine
Aldard... Yes, I think I remember the name. If my memory serves me right, this Francine
Aldard oftentimes complained about other apprentices bullying her and asked for help.
But, that's what it's about. Didn't she get that? This is not some kind of... welfare program!
The great House Telvanni won't weaken itself by putting people into positions they don't
deserve to be put into! You have to prove yourself by cunning, wit and mastery of arcane
skills. The strong survive, the weak are consumed. You may tell her that; she was smart
enough to leave Marog, she'd be smart enough to get that."


Very nice! Welfare programs might be a bit out-of-world, though.

Quote:
Francine Aldard - Journal = 20
"Everything that happened to me... was intended? And master Athyrion was perfectly fine
with my leave? Well, I'm... baffled,... to say the least. Ha-hm! Um, well,... err,... at least I
can stop worrying now. Yes, thank you, %PCName. Here are some scrolls, I have
enchanted them myself; they'll be of good use for you. And, thank you again,...
%PCName."


The first sentence actually is good from a style perspective, but I'd think she already has long since realized that House Telvanni was like that. The rest is... again not the style I want her to use. I'd try writing some example dialogue but I have to catch a train...

All in all, good job so far; I thought of the letter as being the harder thing to write, and you did that well.
Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:27 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I too think she would be more timid and genuinely apologetic for leaving rather than angry, but I like the general tone and writing. If this is the way you want this to go, that's okay with me, though it does feel a bit strange to complain to a Telvanni Wizard Lord, I personally would be terrified they'd set me on fire. The abuse and neglect you say she's suffered feels very Telvanni though, and that's good. I'm assuming arvis didn't grant the claim yet because he wanted me to see this so I'll just go ahead and do that ^^ glhf, we're available whenever you have questions, etcetc.
Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:39 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Yup, Why read my green light correctly.
Post Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Random idea for TR_m2_MG_Francine2: if the player is a superskilled Mystic, perhaps they can do some unauthorized measuring themselves? (like casting a custom detect enchantment spell... at the cost of angering the Temple)
Post Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:48 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



rot wrote:
Random idea for TR_m2_MG_Francine2: if the player is a superskilled Mystic, perhaps they can do some unauthorized measuring themselves? (like casting a custom detect enchantment spell... at the cost of angering the Temple)

Interesting idea, wouldn't be hard to do it, on the other hand Francine2 is basically a filler for Francine1 and Francine3...

I'll let the heads decide.

Questions:
1) global variable to store Arvs Rerathi's status (it'd be the easiest way)? Yes/No
2) faction reputation (the quests are rather 'inofficial')? Yes/No/How much
Post Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I'm not sure about the measurements - I'd kind of like to imply that magic is more than just casting a spell every now and again, and that a measurement like this would be a complicated and longer process.

In the case of Arvs Rerathi, I do agree that a global variable seems to be the most logical approach here. Be sure to leave some room so we can use it in the eventual Legion questline for the fort, too.

Faction reputation - I'm actually embarrassingly ignorant about how that works, exactly. But since I feel we're going to need to rebalance the factionrep rewards at some point anyway, feel free to give out a point at the end of every quest.
Post Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:38 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

6plus wrote:
1) global variable to store Arvs Rerathi's status (it'd be the easiest way)? Yes/No


Yes, and name it something like TR_m2_FW_ArvsState. The future IL quests might also want to modify this variable.

6plus wrote:
2) faction reputation (the quests are rather 'inofficial')? Yes/No/How much


I'd say ModPCFacRep 1 or 2 per quest; but yeah, these are no important Guild matters, so moddisposition should be the main result here.

Don't paint the quests as inofficial in the sense of unauthorized, though -- the guild steward will actually send the player to Francine for quests.

rot wrote:
Random idea for TR_m2_MG_Francine2: if the player is a superskilled Mystic, perhaps they can do some unauthorized measuring themselves? (like casting a custom detect enchantment spell... at the cost of angering the Temple)


Better not unless we can do it right. Otherwise it trivializes the concept of magical research in Morrowind and possibly confuses the player. (I wish we had scripted spells to pull it off well...)

The Francine2 quest is not a filler one; its main point is the letter from Bradys Hlaalo, which contributes to Francine's change of mind towards leaving the eastern half of Morrowind. The letter might have some interesting info for the player, although he is probably aware of the Temple's attitudes by then. (Maybe mention the relation between the catacombs and the ghostfence? I don't know where else this is ever mentioned ingame.)
Post Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Update: the quests should all be playable, but most of the dialogue is just a placeholder

I tried a different style for Francine (topic: letter of apology), maybe you like it better this way.

Rewritten the letter from Francine (more emphasize on the 'I'm sory' part and less on the bullying part).

Important note: right now the quest does NOT detect if Arvs Rethrathi is killed or disabled when it has been already started!
Setting the global variable (TR_m2_WM_Rethrathi) is done at the beginning of the quest, it would set too if he's killed during a 'Purge Fort Windmoth' quest.
Shall I write a short local script for Arvs? It could be replaced or extended once the 'Purge Fort Windmoth' quest is implemented.
Post Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:23 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Yes, feel free to write a script for the guy to make this work, we'll incorporate whatever we need for the legion line in it later.
Post Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:13 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

The letter from Athyrion to Rethrathi sounds a bit too informal (not the way anyone writes to a guard, and also not the way a mage lord writes to anyone). What about this:

Quote:
Commander Rethrathi,

My assumption that the abscondence of Mjara -- a Khajiit slave of mine -- was abetted by a traitor in Marog has been corroborating. Recently I have received an "apology" letter from a former apprentice, a Breton named Francine Aldard, who had left Marog, allegedly out of grievances with certain individuals in town, approximately at the same time as the slave did. Since I can recall neither any debt she had failed to clear, nor any damage she had inflicted upon my tower, such an apology aroused my suspicion, and it revealed itself to me that the apology was merely a cover-up, a hypocritical confession to imaginary sins in an attempt to detract from an actual crime. When it came to my attention that, adding insult to injury, both Mjara and Francine Aldard have settled in the Mages Guild of Akamora, little doubt remained of complicity.

I am not expecting, or even suggesting, that you operate in Akamora or elsewhere on Indoril territory; it would not be expedient to escalate this beyond the Windmoth district. However, should Francine Aldard be identified by your men within the orbit of Windmoth, I require her to be arrested and interrogated. It goes without saying that the same pertains to Mjara.


Warning: this hasn't been proofread.

Feel free to disregard the above if the version of the book that I've seen was a placeholder and you already have something fleshed out.
Post Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:15 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



I add some dialogue to Francine in q2-35, if you want anything changed in these don't hesitate -


Quote:
These scrolls will help you ward yourself against the beasts without harming them. The calming spell will hold any vampire followers at bay -- although if it comes to an old vampire, I can't guarantee it'll be enough. You might have to resort to your own abilities.

Quote:
I can't provide you with any help while you're expelled from the Guild, %PCName.

Quote:
Good luck on your assignment, %PCName.

Quote:
%PCName, Ranosa told me you are to interview a vampire.


to a vampire player:
Quote:
This scroll can help you deal with the creatures, should they be hostile despite your... condition. The calming spell will hold any followers at bay -- although if it comes to an old one, I can't guarantee it'll be enough. You might have to resort to your own abilities.

Quote:
%PCRank, Ranosa told me you are to interview a vampire.


Otherwise didn't do anything about her general behaviour towards vampires- (non-quest greetings and Hello voice are hostile)
Post Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Minor update

Script and some dialogue written
Post Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:41 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Just for your info, 6+, there is a new version of the Mainland at http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=312838#312838 , and it might be relevant to your interests since I've been messing with Akamora dialogue. Either way, if you're editing Ranosa (the NPC, not just her dialogue), please make sure she has 450 barter gold.
Post Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:54 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Just dropping in to say that I'm occupied by RL at the moment so no real update this time. Progress will speed up about next month or so.

And I don't think that I'll edit Ranosa btw.
Post Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:20 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Don't worry, I'm procrastinating TR with RL on massive terms, too.
Post Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Updated

all of the dialogue entries should be implemented now,
they only need polishing
Post Sun May 05, 2013 11:46 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Another update

It would be helpful if someone did a more complete review on this file
Post Sat May 18, 2013 12:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Just played through the first 2 quests, no technical trouble. Here are some comments,



_ same issue as in map1 where a lot of quests send you to places you don't necessarily know. It's obviously not your fault that there aren't generic topics for these locations yet, but in the meantime you could add custom entries on Francine Aldard for "Marog", "Necrom" and later "Fort Windmoth" either telling you where those places are geographically, or how you can get there (silt strider/boat from which locations), or just throwing around the names of the nearby settlements from which there is transport to these places, or telling you who to ask about that. Maybe she wouldn't know much about Necrom but she lived in Marog and has been in Windmoth so she should be able to tell you something about those



_ the topic "bonewalker smithies" in Necrom:
- Some entries are currently not conditioned, do you want to have generic entries about the "bonewalker smithies" in Necrom (which I think would be really nice, since this topic can be obtained from other dialogue too) or do you want the dialogue to be strictly for this quest? Either way, generic entries should be conditioned by "Nolore = 0" and quest entries (those basically saying "go speak to Bradys Hlaalo") conditioned so that they don't appear outside of the quest.
- the entry for all NPCs in Necrom directly points you to Bradys Hlaalo; that's a logical answer you'd get from the NPCs in the smithies (because it implies you asked them about the measurements and permission), but (especially if this is a generic topic) in general I'd expect the other NPCs in Necrom to have something about the smithies themselves more along the lines of telling you how there are several - at least a minor and a greater one I think? - and/or that they're supervised by the Chamber of Parting
- Necrom is bigger than it seems (or the other way around? same result), would be helpful if at least friendly NPCs helped on how to find the Chamber of Parting (which part of town it's in, or the shape of the building...) so you don't just hop around all town looking at the doors
- getting called a n'wah under disposition 50 perhaps a bit much? Greetings and voices don't get that hostile over disp 35-40 I think




_ Grammar and stuff,
Francine's letter:
Quote:
"Though disheartening I could have sustained:" -> "sustained it"

"any idea I dared mentioning openly" -> "I dared mention openly"

"I never pondered ... until..." -> "I had never" in context

"Though, you are master Rilmas Athyrion and I am just a nobody!" -> the "Though" is oddly placed, perhaps supposed to be "Indeed" or somesuch

typo "foressen" -> foreseen

'There is nothing I could do. The damage is done" -> sounds better w/ the same tense "is nothing I can... is done"

"If you know a way how I could compensate" -> the "how" sounds like too much to me, but it's colloquial

"I can only assure you the gravity" -> "assure you of"

"You had deserved a more loyal apprentice than I was" -> "You deserved" more natural?


Dialogue:

Quote:
Francine Aldard: topic "letter of apology": "Ah, magnificent! Since the day of my leave I expected disaster to strike at every time"
-> "at every turn" or "at any time" ?
-> same entry, typo "theses scrolls" -> "these"

Francine Aldard: topic "duties": It's really a fascinating topic, %PCName. Have you ever come to realize ..."
-> heh nothing to report I just love the Yes/No on that one (really not important: she'll ask the same question again everytime if she's asked about "duties" before the topic "bonewalker smithies" is used)

Francine Aldard: topic "bonewalker smithies": "If we were allowed... may I ask you to...and apply for permission."
-> should end with a "?"

Bradys Hlaalo: topic "bonewalker smithies": "Here, %PCRace, ... we demand a certain respectfulness and considerateness ... These measurements you want to perform would be neither."
-> the last sentence needs these ideas (respectfulness, considerateness) to be adjectives instead of nouns; the previous sentence could be "demand from people who visit... to be respectful and considerate"
(also in general I'd avoid using %PCRace in dark elves dialogue since it can make them say "Dark Elf" when they should say "Dunmer", but that's nitpicking)



Bradys Hlaalo's reply letter,
-> "has not underwent" -> "has not undergone"
Post Sat May 18, 2013 6:42 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Played the third quest,

- in case that wasn't intentional: the "got arrested" entry in Fort Windmoth seems to be conditioned for the faction Imperial Legion - so only one of the merchants in the Fort gets the non-guard reply, the others are legion members and get the guards' (you could condition it against class Guard instead of faction)
(topic "got arrested" - "Do I look like a guard? I can't tell you why they arrest your friend, but if I had to guess I'd say she's a criminal.")
-> also typo 'why they arrest' should be 'why they arrested'

- TR_m2_q_36_LetterToRethrathi
This letter instantly pops on the table if you kill the commander during the quest. To avoid this, you could place the letter from Francine's dialogue resultbox when starting the quest instead - adding it on the commander if he's alive, or PlaceItemCell -ing it on the table if he's dead

- if you refuse to pay the 'bounty' the commander says he'd arrest you but "need a warrant first." - I guess it's on purpose since this is an empty threat, but doesn't that still sound too out of place for the setting? (I might be wrong, but I wouldn't have assumed non-rogue legion guards to begin with needed actual warrants to arrest people)


grammar typos etc:

Quote:
TR_m2_Francine_Kington "got arrested" "The irony, player! Weren't it that depressing, then the situation was sheerly hilarious... What a grim irony." -> 'would be sheerly' / edit: nvm, 'a grim irony' seems to be correct
"bonewalker smithies" "Evidently there's no... Seemingly he never even considered our proposal." -> 'He seemingly'
"letter of apology" "As long as this is... there' nothing to dread" -> typo 'there's'

TR_m2_Arvs_Rethrathi "got arrested": Why do you ask?... that are serious charges. ... pay her fine... or you commit the crime..." -> 'those are serious charges' / 'or you commit' sounds weird but not sure if wrong
"You think you're smart, eh?... for the rest of your miserable live" -> lives
"Clever decision, %PCRace... I'll give you a free advice" -> I'll give you some free advice/ a free piece of advice (uncountable) "If that is the case, I perhaps find the warrant again." -> ??
greeting "Haven't I told you that you're no longer welcome at my fort. ... you be do what I say." -> first sentence needs question mark / typo 'be' = better?

journal "Master Athyrion read... He don't seems to care" -> 'doesn't seem'
"I talked to Arvs Rethrathi the commander of Fort Windmoth" -> comma after his name
"I found a letter... Mjara, a slave of him" -> 'of his'





and I take that comment back
rot wrote:
"also in general I'd avoid using %PCRace in dark elves dialogue since it can make them say "Dark Elf" when they should say "Dunmer", but that's nitpicking"

%PCRace is too invaluable and it's probably something OpenMW will fix
Post Fri May 31, 2013 5:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Update

Fixed what rot found (thanks btw)
Post Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



- now all three merchants have the guards' entry on "got arrested"
edit: o I see the other entry is gone, so that must be as intended



- TR_m2_q_36_LetterToRethrathi
Doesn't pop up when you kill him anymore, but now looks like there's no way to find it at all unless he's already dead when you get there.
on second thought adding it on him if he's alive as I'd suggested earlier isn't such a good idea for a mages guild quest (pickpocketing not really their shtick, especially if there's no hint that he's withholding something on him)
I believe the intent was to simply have it in his office even if he's alive? If you don't want to just have it lying on the table, where I'd agree him letting you read it could be a bit weird, you could have it hidden somewhere? On/above the bed or under the chair don't really make sense... under a book? Maybe someone can come up with a better idea -




technical nitpick, I think it's good practice to avoid duplicate entries when possible (not really concerned about file size but it does clutter the number of entries on greetings, etc.) e.g.
- "You have to understand my anxiety, %PCName"...
instead of having a greeting with conditions [Journal < 50] and another with [Journal = 80] you could have only one with [Journal <= 80] + [Journal != 60] + [Journal != 50]
- "Haven't I told you that you're no longer welcome at my fort?" could be [>= 30] + [<= 50] + [!= 40]
- "Yes, I've heard what happened to Francine. Nasty story. I hope you find out what's going on."

etc. unless you're planning to add more journal entries
Post Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:07 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



rot wrote:

Doesn't pop up when you kill him anymore, but now looks like there's no way to find it at all unless he's already dead when you get there.

working as intended (if players are moronic enough to kill the only npc who'd tell them what's going on, they deserve to be left clueless)

rot wrote:

technical nitpick, I think it's good practice to avoid duplicate entries when possible (not really concerned about file size but it does clutter the number of entries on greetings, etc.)

imho it's easier to work with the entries this way (the to-be-reviewed version will most likely change that)
Post Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:12 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



6plus wrote:

working as intended (if players are moronic enough to kill the only npc who'd tell them what's going on, they deserve to be left clueless)


Fair enough, but what I meant was, there seems to be no way to find and read the letter if he's *alive* ? or if there is I couldn't find it.
Finding the letter is supposed to be the (optional) best outcome, right? Not just an alternative case if he's already dead when you get there?
Post Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



rot wrote:

Finding the letter is supposed to be the (optional) best outcome, right? Not just an alternative case if he's already dead when you get there?


From what I understood it WAS an alternative case if Arvs' dead, but maybe I got that wrong (Why, arvisrend?), it's not too hard to change that...
Post Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Not sure if I'm getting things right (I'm out of the loop and this won't change until in a week or so), but yes, please ensure that the quest doesn't behave unreasonably if some NPCs in the fort are dead or disabled(!). We haven't figured out where to go with the Imperial Legion questline, but it is likely that it'll involve a purge in that fort at some point.
Post Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



I think it wouldn't be very fair in gameplay terms to only be able to complete this quest (= find out the truth about why she got arrested) depending on whether you've already killed Arvs or not BEFORE you even get it (this quest)! That's why I assumed it wasn't meant to be so - in your quest you give a better reward when the letter is found, which is also logical. (5 grand soul gems is probably too much, and getting nothing at all otherwise a bit harsh, but I assumed that was provisory?)

silly off-topic thought: PC gets Grand Soul Gems which turn out to have petty souls in them. Could be a quest or a troll non-reward in that

@arvisrend : what we're discussing is whether the letter from the Telvanni should be there regardless of whether you killed the people in Windmoth, like in the base quest design for TR_m2_MG_Francine2, or only used as a means to finish the quest if the dude you're supposed to talk to is dead
Post Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:59 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Simply put: should the player be able to find the letter even if Arvs is still alive?
Post Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:25 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Ah! I'd prefer the letter to be there (on the corpse?).
Post Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:33 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Update (#6)

Letter now is there in a somewhat hidden chest
Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

6plus wrote:
Update (#6)

Letter now is there in a somewhat hidden chest


This being a Mages Guild quest claim, it would be cool if the chest would contain a key and an enchanted item (for detectability with the appropriate spells).

Also, there's that stupid additem bug:

Code:
Usage with containers:
If a container has been emptied by the player (in game), AddItem will no longer work. One
workaround is to replace the container with a new one each time it's accessed by the player,
but this may not be practical as there's no way to detect when the container is empty. Aragon
suggested a solution:


(HMM -- maybe we could ask Hrnchamd to fix this in the long run?) Anyway, in the case of this container, a disable/enable should do the trick.

Thanks for the steady flow of updates!!
Post Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:13 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
6plus
Developer
24 Apr 2011



Update (#7)

Fixed and added the items

Technically the quests are more or less finished, so I guess files 1-6 could be deleted...
Post Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Just playtested this with the new TR_Mainland.esp file from http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=315221#315221 . The update has caused only one error, namely the "duties" responses have got out of order. Here's a way to fix this (once you have updated your TR_Mainland.esp) from the command line, assuming that tes3cmd is installed in your Morrowind folder:

Code:

tes3cmd delete --type info --id 2443309481099132366 "Data Files\TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_7.esp"

tes3cmd modify --type info --sub-match "Next_ID:" --replace "/2443309481099132366/7059523305419436/" "Data Files\TR_q2-36-Imp_6plus_7.esp"


The first of these two commands removes a vanilla response you've accidentally dirtied ("You could speak with Arch-Mage Trebonius, [...]"); the second command ensures that your last response does not point out to that vanilla response as its nearest neighbor below but rather to another TR response.

The new Mainland file has all of Ranosa's and Polodie's quests in it, so you can easily refer to them in dialogue conditions. Notice that Polodie2 can be completed before, between or after Ranosa1 and Ranosa2, but Polodie1 can only be completed before all the others.

Here are some additional comments.

Francine talks way too melodramatic and too formal (ever heard "urgent if not downright unpostponable" in speech?). And for all her self-deprecation, the "Hurry, %PCName!" looks rather out of place. Moreover, she shouldn't direct you to Polodie for levitation potions, but give you one herself; she supplies the player with stuff on the quests before, so it is only reasonable she will do the same on her own quests.

My idea on Francine's writing the letter of apology was that it be motivated by shame rather than fear of retaliation. Her dialogue shows otherwise. Honestly, I prefer my idea.

Please replace "tutoring program" by something more tamrielic; "She was not under my mentorship!" or something.

Please no "token expressing my gratitude"; you don't want to know how often these "tokens" appear in vanilla and in TR in almost the same wording ("token of my gratitude").

Also, I imagined Francine being a bit confused at first when she hears of Rilmas' reaction to her letter: she expected him to be angry while he doesn't give a shit. That confusion should then turn into relief, but it shouldn't start as relief right away.

I don't like Francine's technobabble in the bonesmithies quest, but I guess we'll need a lorehead to do it better (I certainly would not be able to).

Here is a point brought up by Sload: Dialogue shouldn't suggest to the player to use fast travel without reason (it's basically suggesting to not explore the lands). Since Francine's request to the player to go visit the bonewalker smithies is Necrom is not urgent, she could hint at a pedestrian route. Of course, the other quests are more urgent.

50000 gold is way too much for a bounty for liberating a slave, even with a corruption multiplier. Maybe 1500 gold?

Arvs Rethrati is missing the most obvious dialogue option: What is the cause of the arrest? I think there should be a way to get him to reveal this to the player (for some gold?); after all, this one is a legitimate arrest warrant (in his opinion), not something he is trying to hide.

I liked your dialogue/writing for Bradys Hlaalo and for Rilmas Athyrion; the Francine one not so much (see the above comments). The Giordano note is nice, although the name sounds a bit too Italian for me. Scripts look good at a first glance (but I would be surprised if they were not, given that they're from you). All in all, this claim seems to be well on the way; keep up the good work!
Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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