Author
Message Post new topic Reply to topic
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Here's a proposition for the Thieves Guild in Almalexia.

The questline will consist of (1)+6 quests revolving around the conflict between Camonna Tong and Thieves Guild as well as hinting an internal conflict caused by the Guild's new leader in Narsis.

Do comment.

pdf tl;dr:

The Almalexia guildhall is in a theatre. I propose this be the interior: i3-627-Ind. It doesn't have a corresponding exterior building atm, but i suggest building number #4 on Alma Local Map #7. The interior will need soome changes to fit this exterior (or vice-versa).

Here's a quick quest list with minimal summaries:

TR_m4_TG_Surru0: The Oldest Trick in the Book
Find a hidden stash of jewels inside a book. For low-ranking members only.

TR_m4_TG_Surru1: Not One for Speeches
Sabotage a Guard commander's speech by replacing the speech parchment with a banned page from the "Real Barenziah".

TR_m4_TG_Surru2: Acquiring Ordinator Armor
Steal Ordinator armor for future use.

TR_m4_TG_Surru3: The Exchange
Ransom a guild member from the Camonna Tong. Note: this quest needs a rather very specific cave interior for it.

TR_m4_TG_Surru4: The Masquerade
Dress up as Ordinators, enter a CT cargo ship and kidnap one of the CT members. Note: this quest needs one of the ships in Almalexia to be of Camonna Tong

TR_m4_TG_Jikhu1: Finding Arnie the Scrib
Locate the legendary former TG leader.

TR_m4_TG_Jikhu2: Good Thief, Bad Thief
Interrogate the kidnapped CT member.

TR_m4_TG_Jikhu3: Breaking the Fourth Wall
Assassinate a CT kingpin during a theatre performance. Note: this quest needs a sewer system that leads to the CT theatre interior cell i3-46-Ind



Thieves Guild Questline for Almalexia.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Thieves Guild Questline for Almalexia.pdf
 Filesize:  305.55 KB
 Downloaded:  262 Time(s)


_________________
stars are out tonight.
Post Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:20 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Tyrant
Developer
24 Mar 2010

Location: Canada

Looks great. Looks like a fun questline. I'd be curious to see how a functional interrogation mission in MW would work though.
_________________
Mourn for us oppressed in fear
Chained and shackled, we are bound
Freedom choked in dread we live
Since Tyrant was enthroned
Post Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:17 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

This is what I call an outline for a guild. We should have such similar document for other guilds too.
_________________
THEO
Post Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:59 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
roerich
Developer
08 Feb 2010

Location: Sea of Ghosts

Great job, Rats!

Rats wrote:

TR_m4_TG_Jikhu3: Breaking the Fourth Wall
Assassinate a CT kingpin during a theatre performance. Note: this quest needs a sewer system that leads to the CT theatre interior cell i3-46-Ind


This was exactly what I had in mind with this int. A sewer entrance could surely be implemented, but the int is seperated into a "commoner" floor and a "rich" floor by a locked door. I assume the kingpin would be placed on the balcony, locked off and with a guard on the outside, and not sitting in the audience. The player would either need to target him from one of the other balconies with ranged weapons, or another solution would have to be found. The central balcony is intended for a CT kingpin anyways, with high security, skooma and a khajiit skull being there.
Post Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:52 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Overall, this is pretty good first draft for the Almalexia Thieves Guild. I'm especially pleased with the focus placed on the conflict with the Camonna Tong. Seeing as it supposedly poses an existential threat to the Thieves Guild in Morrowind, it’s natural to make it the center of attention in the Guild’s storyline. The gang war between the two factions on Vvardenfell was rather underwhelming, and I’m sure we can make the conflict on the mainland more dynamic and engaging; with the Cammona Tong retaliating against Thieves Guild activities and vice versa. Basically, I think we should go all-out with the gang war, drawing inspiration from Mexican cartels and the like.

To be honest, this quest line seems a tad paltry in length for a city as humongous as Almalexia. It's status as the economic and political center of the province should be reflected by the number of quests the player receives from the three main guilds located there. There should also be more instances where the Cammona Tong goes after Thieves Guild and the player has to respond.

I don't know how I feel about making one of Vaermina’s relics the source of the Thieves Guild's corruption. Daedric artifacts strike me as a cliché way to explain a character’s motivations and behavior. I'm perfectly fine with making the severity of the Thieve’s Guild’s tactics a central plot thread in the guild's story line. Ideally, the player should be given a choice on the matter, with different characters advocating for violent and nonviolent approaches to particular quests. This story, however, could be told without the presence of malevolent Daedric MacGuffin. Even if we ultimately keep it in the quest, I think its influence should be as nearly overt as its described in the current plan. Having it clone the Guild's leader is an interesting concept, but anything past that, like corrupting the entire city of Narsis, might be pushing things too far.

On a related note, I'm afraid I'm not a big fan of many of the names you've given the guild members, though "Arnie the Scrib" is pure win.

Rats wrote:
The questline will consist of (1)+6 quests revolving around the conflict between Camonna Tong and Thieves Guild as well as hinting an internal conflict caused by the Guild's new leader in Narsis.


Like I said before, the number of quests here doesn't seem like enough to cover a major faction's activities in Almalexia. Six quests per city might have been the standard in vanilla, but this is the capital of the province we're talking about. There will be no shortage of stuff for the TG to swipe once we're done with this city.

Rats wrote:

The Almalexia guildhall is in a theatre. I propose this be the interior: i3-627-Ind. It doesn't have a corresponding exterior building atm, but i suggest building number #4 on Alma Local Map #7. The interior will need soome changes to fit this exterior (or vice-versa).


A theater sounds like an ideal location for the Thieves Guild. Perhaps we can use this setting as an excuse to create some flamboyant personalities for the members here? Some of them could even be actual actors and musicians; a troupe of performers who also happen to be thieves.

Rats wrote:
TR_m4_TG_Surru0: The Oldest Trick in the Book
Find a hidden stash of jewels inside a book. For low-ranking members only.


How do you hide a jewel inside a book? If it involves cutting a hidey-hole into the pages, we'll have to script the book so that it’s impossible to read.

Rats wrote:

TR_m4_TG_Surru1: Not One for Speeches
Sabotage a Guard commander's speech by replacing the speech parchment with a banned page from the "Real Barenziah".


This seems a little juvenile for the Thieves Guild. They should be portrayed as a serious criminal organization trying to survive in a hostile city. Playing silly pranks isn’t going to help them protect their turf. Besides, there are more substantial ways to ruin a high-ranking guard’s reputation; I highly doubt the Ordinators would jail someone for simply reading “Real Barenziah,” in public, seeing as the book is pretty common in-game (I even recall seeing copies of it in the Temple library in Vivec)

Rats wrote:

TR_m4_TG_Surru2: Acquiring Ordinator Armor
Steal Ordinator armor for future use.
TR_m4_TG_Surru3: The Exchange
Ransom a guild member from the Camonna Tong. Note: this quest needs a rather very specific cave interior for it.


Replace the Ordinator armor with Indoril bonemold. Ordinators shouldn't show up in a quest unless their presence is vital to the plot. Otherwise they end up being overused in quests, and being treated as mundane watchmen. Ordinators play a unique, and highly prestigious, role in Morrowind’s justice system. If you're thinking of using them in a quest in which regular guards could be used, stick with regular guards instead.
Rats wrote:


TR_m4_TG_Surru4: The Masquerade
Dress up as Ordinators, enter a CT cargo ship and kidnap one of the CT members. Note: this quest needs one of the ships in Almalexia to be of Camonna Tong

TR_m4_TG_Jikhu1: Finding Arnie the Scrib
Locate the legendary former TG leader.

TR_m4_TG_Jikhu2: Good Thief, Bad Thief ("noname" in the pdf)
Interrogate the kidnapped CT member.


I like these quests. Finding Arnie the Scrib will be a good chance to implement some seedy detective work involving underworld informers. Interrogation and kidnapping quests are also just what we need to break up the monotony of constant theft quests in the Thieves Guild. “Go here and steal that” can get old pretty quickly.

_________________
-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Post Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:38 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



I agree with most of the things you said, Yeti. Agreed, Almalexia deserves more quests. The questline I've outlined includes only the bare minimum needed for what I felt was a coherent plot. I had some misc quest ideas including some random street violence, but I couldn't write them to be relevant enough to be included in the first draft. So, let's get brainstorming how to flesh the questline out!

As for using the Skull of Corruption, yes, it has the potential of being a big "corrupted-by-the-One-Ring" cliché. However, I think that it's a nice way of adding a high fantasy element to an otherwise low fantasy plot. I also feel it would be such a waste to have all these Daedric artifacts that we know about and not use them when they could serve as plot devices. The nature of the disaster that the Guild's heading due to the Skull should be something more overt, the mental weapon of mass destruction idea was a silly top-of-my-head thing.

Yeti wrote:
How do you hide a jewel inside a book? If it involves cutting a hidey-hole into the pages, we'll have to script the book so that it’s impossible to read.

Yes, with a hidey-hole. No fancy scripting needed: just replace the text with a line "[There's a hole in the middle of this book. It's impossible to read.]"

Yeti wrote:
[...]I highly doubt the Ordinators would jail someone for simply reading “Real Barenziah,” in public, seeing as the book is pretty common in-game (I even recall seeing copies of it in the Temple library in Vivec)

The censored book is really common and would be a no biggie, but reading the uncensored version in public would get you in trouble: [This passage has been censored by the order of the Temple.] Take into account that this happens on Indoril/Temple turf and the person committing the herecy is an Imperial who's already suspected of being anti-Dunmer. The quest is meant to be fun and maybe a bit juvenile but also to serve a stark contrast for the increasingly darker toned quests towards the end.

As for the names, I didn't put that much thought in them so I have no issue with whatever changes are called for. Apart from Wrong-Eye Lyssa and Arnie/Alomon the characters are still paper-thin anyways, so they could all be redesigned. Incidentally, Arnie the Scrib was the one name not coined by me.

_________________
stars are out tonight.
Post Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:28 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

You could also include two-stage quest including preparation for some heist:

Your goal would be to steal some item from a residence of some high-ranked Indoril. This may or may not relate to the overall plotline with camona-tong conflict (maybe getting some rare piece of the armor from the retired officer in order to pull the con at the ship)

1) Obtain an information from majordomo of this noble, who is currently drinking in a pub.

This will be dialog only quest so you can go a little bit more creative here:

- Depending on your speechcraft skills you will get a set of possible replies (high speechraft/intelligence may filter out silly options and/or add new more viable ones.)
- Also during a conversation you may buy him some drinks, which will raise his disposition, but beware to buy him ones that he likes (you need to deduce it from his talk) and not to buy him too many or he passes out.
- If you are female you may try to flirt with him (success depends on your personality and his level of intoxication-disposition).
- etc.

(Maybe make the conversation proceed just once right from the greeting until goodbye so that the player has no chance to use standard persuasion and has only one try).

Your goal is to make him reveal as much of information you may need as you can. Some ideas what he could tell you:

-There is a back entrance to the residence through the garden door and he has a key, which he always carries with him (you may try to pickpocket him, or just take it from him once he passes out).
- This guy will also tell you that the item you need is stored behind a secret door in masters bedroom. In order to open them you must move some specific book in the bookshelf, but he does not know which one (you may do some investigation in the residence itself for clues).
- He tells you that there is a window at 6am and 6pm each day when there is an exchange of guards patrolling around masters chambers, when this part of the building is unguarded.
- etc.

2) As a second quest later you can use this information to steal the precious item. Make sure each information gained makes the quests substantially easier, but it should still be doable with high sneak skills without the information as well.

_________________
THEO
Post Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:18 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Stealing armour and parading as Ordinators could be a fun show of audacity if there was a grander endgame objective for it, like stealing something big from the Temple. Say, something to help in the last quest...

Quote:
TR_m4_TG_Surru4: The Masquerade

How about an optional, skippable preliminary bit: getting an actor to play the part of the Indoril guards / getting one of the actor retainers for the TG theater to prep the thieves... respectively lifting or alleviating any Speechcraft requirements for the bluff.

Some ideas for misc thieves quests:

- Illegal Remedy
A sick young noble is held in bed, possibly against their will, by concerned comrades (or unaware parents... their affliction seemingly cannot be cured by magic, what could it be yadda yadda...) The TG knows what's what: you have to sneak or somehow get in, and slip them some skooma to relieve the withdrawal symptoms (eg seemingly cure them) and maintain the addiction (wouldn't want to lose that customer!)

- Theft Insurance (role-reversal, other side of the extortion theme)
The CT just achieved a rather high-profile heist (a painting, an original copy of a book, random item that belonged to a famous character...) in the Foreign Quarter, from a merchant who does pay the Guild's protection fee - bad publicity. You can perhaps just spread lies among the other merchants to try and turn this around, but a more interesting option is to actually honor the implied warranty: tracking down the special item in another city, and bringing it back to the merchant. Some way to go about this: posing as a trader to approach the item (/buy it and retrieve the gold...)

- Cleaning Up The Act
You're tipped off about a guard search incidentally happening in a street where the Guild keeps a handy deposit. Clear it of all traces of licentious activity and get out unnoticed before they get there.
(obvious items: skooma/sugar, lockpicks, ... ; less obvious gear like daggers, cowls)

- Free the Arch-Mage
(optional, post-endgame high-level quest depending on the state of the MG questline)
A little spontaneous show of good will between the Guilds can't hurt. You're tasked with freeing/assisting the Archmage (if he does indeed start out in jail, as has been mentioned). Obviously you find out when getting to him that he's only staying there of his own free will, can conjure whatever he fancies and doesn't require any assistance. (or maybe just asks you to fetch him some wine :p)

Very vague ideas: a Thieves Guild traditionally relies on beggars for its information network. Not something that could work off the bat in Almalexia, where local beggars would be kept busy by Indoril pseudo-charity and/or default to siding with the CT. Something could be made of that?
- relying more on prostitutes- Some task to negociate an exclusivity agreement with an unaligned brothel? Introducing some workers to richer customers? Find out some well-to-do Dunmer deviant has a penchant for beasts?
- trying to turn CT support. ex: One beggar is a peculiar CT informant (outlander, or casually very pious) - find out what makes it so (skooma addiction); promise him a better deal on the Guild's side (easy) or get a healer to treat him (hard or expensive), either way making it possible to get info from him in the future
Post Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

If the Daedric artifact is still in play, then perhaps the stolen armor could be used as a cover to steal highly controlled documents from a Temple vault or somewhere (a la Vatican Archives); the document(s) in question dealing with said artifact and how to destroy it/control it/counter its influence. Alternatively the documents could speak to the whereabouts of another, more desirable artifact.
_________________
Forum Administrator & Data Files Manager

[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind

[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
Post Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Sasquatch's dwemer lantern reminds me of an idea for the TG / Nocturnal... artifact to help in the last quests - a shadow lantern (to hide you from vaernima while in her realm?) giving a darkness cover = Sneak bonus.
not sure whether negative-light lanterns work right when held in vanilla...
Post Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:53 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Pitting Nocturnal and Vaermina against each other (or rather, having Nocturnal and Vaermina pit the Guild against itself with their influences) just made the potential Thieves Guild main plot infinitely more interesting.

The Shadow Lantern is too good an idea not to use.

_________________
stars are out tonight.
Post Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:17 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic Reply to topic

 
The content of this site is © by the Tamriel Rebuilt community. Morrowind, its expansions, and its content is © Bethesda Softworks.
Forums powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group