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Elathia
Member
15 Oct 2003

Location: Silgrad Tower

I'm currently helping out on the ST section with some scripts, and some time ago I got a 'mission' to improve one of their scripts. This little piece of work threw out customers after closing time from the shops, and locked the doors (to put it simple).
I wanted to add some details to it, and also disable the NPC after closing time. This creates a new problem: how can we prevent burglaries then? If the shopkeeper and the guards inside are gone/asleep, there should be some kind of way to prevent the players from freely roaming the stores during the night. So, I decided to implement a skill check on the disabled shopkeeper that runs every once in a while when the player is around, to check if he makes enough noise to wake anyone.

Currently I'm fine tuning this to be realistic and hard enough to give some balance... And then one question struck me: maybe we should standardize this? I mean, if I write a script like this and attach it to every shopkeeper in Silgrad Tower and the surrounding villages, and some other guy write a similar script for another town in TR but with different checks or different procedures, this could get really nasty... Therefore I have some questions for you:

1. Is the rest of TR interested in having such a script?
2. If yes, how can we best decide how it should work?
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:40 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Zarkis
Member
24 Nov 2003



What kind of skillcheck do you mean? And what happens if the skillcheck fails? Will the guards/NPCs suddenly get enabled?
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Elathia
Member
15 Oct 2003

Location: Silgrad Tower

Currently I'm checking for sneaking, and the level of the sneaking skill. As I'm kind of inspired by Daggerfall, I felt it should be similar to that system.
I find that instantly enabling NPCs around you would be kind of unrealistic, so maybe just a ForceGreeting, some dialogue (a greeting where the shopkeeper sees you, and calls for the guards), and then thrown into jail? That's the way it currently works... Could of course be changed into MessageBoxes or similar.
Or does anyone have any other suggestion?


Last edited by Elathia on Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:59 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
dEUS
Member
22 Aug 2003

Location: Silgrad Tower, Ruins of the Aedryn Mine

I think instant jailing isnt good.. The player should be able to "escape" so a bounty setting would be best I think in some way.

-D-
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Anonymous
Guest




When stealing a thing the chance for waking the owner should be increased. Also where will the NPC be while the shop is closed? JUst gone or will s/he lie in their bed?
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:12 pm             Reply with quote                   up  
Elathia
Member
15 Oct 2003

Location: Silgrad Tower

No, instant jailing should be avoided. I just don't want to forsake ease-of-use, like having to write customized scripts for every shop.

Blandmand, that was a good suggestion. Will see if I can make that... But making the NPC sleep in their bed would require a totally different kind of script. My idea was to write a general one that could easily be placed at any shopkeeper without any configuration. Please let me know if a script like that is more interesting to this project...
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Arcadea
Developer Emeritus
23 Aug 2003

Location: Milford, NH, USA

can we make it a global scrypt. I don now alloyt about scrypts but would this enable it to be put on every shop at once?
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Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:29 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Elathia
Member
15 Oct 2003

Location: Silgrad Tower

Well, currently it works this way:
When you make a shop and place the NPCs you choose to attach a script to them. The shopkeeper will have one, the guards inside will have one, and the door will have one. Depending on which script you choose they will have different opening hours.

If you want to have a custimized script on the NPC, just copy & paste my base script, and continue it under your own name.

This is just my way of doing this, if the rest of TR have any better suggestion, it could of course be changed. I just want to know if there is any interest in having such a script, because if that's the case I have to adapt this to the TR standard.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
wererat
Developer
08 Nov 2003



about the door. if you dont want the pc roaming around after closing couldn't you just disable the teleport and have a message appear (like the shack in dagon fel) until morning?
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Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:02 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Elathia
Member
15 Oct 2003

Location: Silgrad Tower

The door could be set to not open until morning, but then there would be nothing for the thieves to do.. Smile
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:07 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
ashlander
Member
17 Oct 2003



very good idea wererat.me likes it
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:12 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Cep
Member
14 Nov 2003

Location: On a boat in the middle of nowhere

Ok here is my solution to being caught.

If your caught you get a forcegreeting syaing,

[You hear something behind you and suddenly feel a blow to your head]

Then play the blackout effect, then place a guard next to the PC, give the PC a crime rating. The guard will grab the PC. And voila you are given a choice.
Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 10:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Hermit
Developer Emeritus
17 Oct 2003

Location: The North German plains

Well, I think we could use such a script. I found it always annoying that, even though I have a security skill of 95, that I simply cannot enter said shack, period. There should eb a script that handles this, for the sake of realism.

And I also like Cep's forcegreeting. Wink

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Post Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Garret Strife
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: Cyrodiil, City streets

Quote:
Originally posted by Cep
Ok here is my solution to being caught.

If your caught you get a forcegreeting syaing,

[You hear something behind you and suddenly feel a blow to your head]

Then play the blackout effect, then place a guard next to the PC, give the PC a crime rating. The guard will grab the PC. And voila you are given a choice.

not necessarily just because a shopkeeper catches you dosnt mean he caught you from behind, he could have just worken up and saw you in front of him

but anyways please add this as this adds more realism especially for thieves, also you should add the global script to vvardenfell shops too if rest of morrowind will have it why not vvardenfell?
Post Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:47 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Greybeard
Member
21 Aug 2003

Location: Shanarra

In answer to the original question, I agree that we should use such a script. Blacklight has one that locks the place up at night I think. Presently, I'm using "nightscript_final_script_only.esp" , which is quite involved. I'm not sure that an all-in-one script is practical, but I'd like to see all of our towns have a similar "feel." One exception, though, I think that the bars/hotels/"places of earthly delights" should be treated differently.
Post Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:40 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Zarkis
Member
24 Nov 2003



I would like to give the player more choices. Instead of "Wham, you get whacked on your head and jailed!", give him first some random warning messages, when he fails his stealth check(btw. the player should sneak around ...can you check that by a script?). With each message the chance to get detected would rise. A warning message could be like: "You fumbled your steps and made loud noise." The player then has a choice if he wants to continue and risk detection or leave the house. Also when the player enters a house with such a script at night, a message should inform him that the new game mechanics kick in and he has to sneak to avoid detection. This should be written in ingame terms of course like "You illegaly entered the house. You have to sneak around to avoid detection". Something like that.

I also think some shops with a lot of expensive items should have a constant guard into them, which is set to wander at night.
Post Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:21 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Garret Strife
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: Cyrodiil, City streets

if its a mansion then ya there should be guards 24/7 patrolling outside the mansion and inside the mansion but there should be guard shifts to make it more realistic
Post Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:35 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Zarkis
Member
24 Nov 2003



@Elathia

Forget my ideas in the last post. There more I think about it, the more problems I see with disableing the guards and shopkeepers.

What can a script do about this: The player picks the lock of a shop, does two steps to the next shelf, picks up everything he can carry and leaves the house. Your script won't prevent that. Don't you think this makes stealing much to easy (like in Daggerfall)?
Post Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Elathia
Member
15 Oct 2003

Location: Silgrad Tower

Thanks for the great response!

First of all, when breaking into a closed shop, there will be a "warning" message, like "As the door swing open, you realise that what you do from here is illegal". Any comment/suggestions on that?

I'm running a check on sneaking. Without sneaking, he'll get caught immediately. But I really want to add some of Zarkis earlier suggestion to give the player some control. Maybe to a lesser degree.

This is just meant as a "base" script, that the modders can add to their shops. It must be placed locally on each shop/door, like the other door-locking scripts.

I don't think this kind of script is fitting for a tavern or similar. That would require something else.

The biggest problem that I have right now is the placement of the shopkeeper and the guards when you're detected. They could be placed at the door, but that would require placement of another script... Currently there's three of them: one for the exterior door, one for the shopkeeper, and one for guards. Would another one be too much?
Post Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:11 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Garret Strife
Member
19 Jan 2004

Location: Cyrodiil, City streets

well dont think there should be a message box when you enter as the player should know its illegal, plus guards shouldnt come automatically when you get caught the shopkeeper should report you instead
Post Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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