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alex25
Developer
21 Jan 2010

Location: Here and There

klep wrote:
I could see Hlaalu as a faction that aims to evolve Morrowind's fuesalism into a more capitalist style (corrupted) democracy, with themselves on top. Their greed for capital and power could be seen as their weapon. They are political economists who scheme to (economically) rule Morrowind in order to establish a solid and profitable province which has a chance against the Empire which, they feel, is exploiting Morrowind and its people. Strategically trading with the Empire could strengthen Hlaalu's economical position against other Houses (in the public POV) and the Empire (in Hlaalu's POV).


Not democracy. Democracy isn't the dunmer way except maybe for ashlanders (and even then its a tribal organization not true city state democracy and in any case not something even remotely like our own).

Aristocracy, oligarchy, theocracy- these are how dunmer rule themselves with some meritocracy (oddly enough I think there should be some sort of vague respect for the self made mer because the Tribunal and Nerevar are just that).
Post Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:28 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
klep
Lead Developer
23 Nov 2014

Location: Europe

I guess I just lack the active vocabulary to properly express myself in English. Forget democracy and capitalism. I'm giving it another try.

The Hlaalu have a greed for power and wish to acquire this power through politic economics. They scheme to (economically) rule Morrowind in order to establish a solid and profitable province, essentially for its prosperity. The Empire is exploiting Morrowind and its people. A strong economic position of Morrowind, with Hlaalu as its conductor, would give it an upper hand position against threats like the Empire.
Post Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:35 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Worsas
Developer
10 Sep 2005



I'm sorry, should my post not contribute much to the discussion.

I like the idea of House Hlaalu incorporating an ancient mission dating back to the very foundation of the houses and I could see this as something that a young Dunmer of Hlaalu stock drinks with his mothers milk, so to say.

Expanding, furthering, explaining not just the physical landmass, but also storyline and established concepts of the original game is the very task of Tamriel Rebuilt. Why should we stop at House Hlaalu?

Everything here is made up. TR is already conflicting with official lore because you cannot create a large gameworld without making up stuff and working around gaps of knowledge (or things you don't like about Bethesdas take). The only thing that matters is that it won't suck in the end. That's my take, at least.


Last edited by Worsas on Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theminimanx
Lead Developer
26 Jan 2014

Location: GMT +1

There's a difference between filling in the blanks, and retconning stuff. The former is TR's mission, but here I feel we're getting a bit too close to the latter.
Now don't get me wrong, sometimes a retcon is necessary (Almalexia for instance), but I'm confident that we can make Hlaalu interesting without having to contradict Vanilla.

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The death of vanilla Morrowind will end this prophecy and unite all Morrowind fans again under one mod, one faith, one rule by our divine project. The puppet Morrowind overhaul mods will lay down their arms and bow to our will. Those who do not yield will be destroyed.
Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:03 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theminimanx
Lead Developer
26 Jan 2014

Location: GMT +1

I've been doing some more thinking about Hlaalu, and a theory wormed its way into my brain. Now, many of you (myself perhaps included) will think this is a horrible idea, but I found it interesting as a thought exercise.
So far, we've always assumed that Hlaalu doesn't actually like the Empire. Their acceptance of it and its culture is because they're an important trading partner/the rulers. It's mere self-interest.

But what if it's genuine?

For this to make sense, it's important to keep in mind that Hlaalu was trading with Cyrodiil long before the Armistice. "Merchants and traders in a land that despises outsiders, the Hlaalu nevertheless maintain a limited commerce with the Empire..." That doesn't sound like it's in Hlaalu's best interest to trade with the outside, and yet they do. Why?
Well, it's because they really do believe in what the Empire stands for. They believe that the Dunmer should be more open-minded about religion and culture, and they believe that the best way to achieve that is through leading by example. This is why they don't simply move to Cyrodiil; they want to change Morrowind from the inside.
Of course, that doesn't mean they should completely lose their Dunmer identity in the process. Just because they're open to new ideas and cultures, doesn't mean they have be that nice to individual people. Similarly, they don't feel the need to hide their greed and ambition under facade of politeness the way Imperials do. Ultimately, they do believe the Dunmer are inherently better than others, even if those others have the occasional good idea.

There are a few things about this idea that I like about it. First, it gives Hlaalu an identity beyond greedy merchants. This identity also comes with a goal, a clear endpoint that they want to work towards. Second, this new approach would mean that Hlaalu's willingness to consider new ideas is no longer a universal good. Because they stuck to open-mindedness during Indoril's rule, they were unwilling to do the pragmatic thing and join in on Morrowind's xenophobia. Yes, thanks to it they're now the most powerful House in Morrowind, but it was also the cause of over two thousand years of weakness before the Empire ruled Morrowind. Finally, it doesn't contradict Vanilla, which is always a good thing in my book.

Again though, this idea is far from perfect. Even I think it could do with a lot of fleshing out. But creating this theory made me look at some aspects of Hlaalu from a different angle, and I hope it can provoke some thoughts in you too.

_________________
The death of vanilla Morrowind will end this prophecy and unite all Morrowind fans again under one mod, one faith, one rule by our divine project. The puppet Morrowind overhaul mods will lay down their arms and bow to our will. Those who do not yield will be destroyed.
Post Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Remnants of that ancient mission. But time changes and gold has changed the minds of the Hlaalu.
Post Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:54 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
st.Veloth, The Repenting
Member
28 Feb 2015

Location: toronto

house redoran should own more territory, in retrospect, house hlaalu shouldn't own so much territory, due to it's position as the imperial ass kisser. some pieces of norther hlaalu territory, or along the spine of morrowind should either be contested territory or redoran.
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Post Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:53 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Hlaalu picked the right time to be pro-Imperial. It's why they own so much land. If it weren't going to bring them success, they wouldn't have aligned with the Empire; Hlaalu always seek profit, and are very good at it.
In a strong and ideal Morrowind, they would perhaps be a much smaller House, and Redoran and Indoril would own a lot more land. At the time of Morrowind, however, the province is anything but strong, which is why a House like Redoran which most people can admire is poor and lacking in lands, while a House like Hlaalu which a lot of people despise is doing very well for itself.
Post Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:03 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

There is no need to post a question in more than one thread, st.veloth.

House Hlaalu is arguably the most influential of the five Great Houses at the time the game takes place, while House Redoran is in steep decline. As such, the current extent of their territories is perfectly reasonable.

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Post Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:26 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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