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immortal_pigs
Developer
15 May 2008

Location: Utrecht

For discussion of the Dwemer Ruin overlooking Andothren. (Also needs a name). Previous postings in the Andothren [City] thread.

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There are a lot of ways to go with this. I believe there are plans to create a Dwemer lighthouse. It also seems implied that the location of Andothren used to be a Dwemer settlement. Perhaps during the war, (what would later be Hlaalu) forces defeated the Dwemer here. But what's going on in the ruin present day? An idea was to have Camonna Tong hidden in the ruin but that seems a bit obvious. I don't think it should be just a standard Dwemer ruin with a couple spiders either. People have been living in the are too long for the ruin to still be dangerous. There is a Mages Guild in Andothren, perhaps they are interested in spelunking the ruin? Anyone have any ideas about what to do with the ruin?


Quote:
The Lost Dwemer Checkpoint under the Mudan Grotto is very close to this ruin. (It may have been flooded with the flooding of the Inner Sea, now that I come to think of it. Which reminds me: why is the Dragonbone Cuirass, supposedly enchanted by Zurin Arctus in early 3E, in a Dwemer Ruin (they disappeared around 1E 700) in the Inner Sea (flooded 2E 572?)? Random nonsense, or can we make a story out of it, which could in turn help us figure out what to do with the ruin at Andothren?)

As to the lighthouse idea: keep in mind that, if the Dwemer built the lighthouse, it would have been a lighthouse that overlooked the lower half of the Thirr, not the Inner Sea. Which could still work. An alternative would be that it is a ruined tower re-purposed as a lighthouse by the Dunmer.


Quote:
Dwemer ruin: I wanted to make a lighthouse in the Dwemer ruin to make it memorable & unique instead of putting another observatory there to make it so that no Dwemer ruin is memorable & unique. I also think the ext should be changed to make sure its visible from much of Andothren with graphics extenders.

I don't think the ruin needs to be looted as in "not a fun adventure." I think if the upper levels are looted just enough that low-level players can explore them, that is good. Whats important is that this ruin is one a lot of players are going to visit, & since the spotlight is on it it needs to be good and fun.

If it has a lighthouse, maybe some old cook is living there making it work?


Quote:
Yeah no idea on any of this (& your other thoughts on the ruin are good too!). Someone should claim "figuring out what the Dwemer ruin is like;" I think the important goal is that it a) make sense with its proximity to the city (having smugglers as the baddies in the upper level, for example, Arkngthand style); b) be a fun play experience.


Quote:
Personally I would like the Dwemer ruin to be empty. Maybe have some shady Camonna Tong activity going on inside. Or perhaps some fugitive/criminal/fugitive slaves hiding in the ruin. It makes no sense to have a dangerous ruin so close to the city imo.

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Post Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Sooo, did the Dwemer sail? Or trade with civilizations who did?

edit: I'll just say that I think the idea of a Dwemer lighthouse sounds boring and implausible. I think it'd be much more fitting to have a Dwemer "mystery machine" like the Weather Witch for tampering with the earth bones. Or some sort of refinery, energy plant, manufacturing plant, etc.
Post Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:51 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Melchior Dahrk wrote:

edit: I'll just say that I think the idea of a Dwemer lighthouse sounds boring and implausible.


A "lighthouse" for mystics
A lighthouse for airships
...
Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:14 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I suppose there are a few questions that need to be clarified about the Dwemer ruin:

1. what gameplay role or roles do we want the ruin to have? Dungeon, quest location, quest hub, pure exploration?
2. how do we want the ruin to be populated, if at all? Smugglers, Dwemer centurions, a Mages Guild or Imperial Archaeological Society research team, a necromancer/sorcerer?
3. how would the population be distributed over the ruin?
4. what changes, if any, need to be made to the ruin to reflect the answers to the above questions?

I agree with Sload that the important goals for the ruin are for the ruins to make sense in the context of their proximity to Andothren and for the ruins to provide a fun play experience.

I think having any hostile activity near the ruin entrance would require some explaining. One or two dangerous fugitives hiding out could work, but attack-on-sight smugglers or active Dwemer centurions would be too much of a stretch, in my opinion.
I do, however, like the idea of the Dwemer ruin being a low-level dungeon, though I won't insist on it or anything. That is why I personally like the idea of low-level Dwemer centurions in the deeper, hard-to-access reaches of the ruin.
Reflecting that, I like the idea of making the ruin get more ruined the deeper it gets, eventually requiring acrobatics or even levitation to get about. The lower levels were never systematically looted because nobody took the trouble to do so.
The upper levels could either be empty or inhabited by non-hostile NPCs, such as the lighthouse caretaker. I actually like the idea of the upper ruins being mostly empty as it could provide a nice change of pace, as long as it is done well.
Another route would be to make the upper levels, or the whole ruin, a quest location or hub. I don't see any reason for the Camonna Tong to be there, but having it be a Thieves Guild base, for example, could work.

As far as the lighthouse is concerned, as far as I can tell nobody is against making it a ruined Dwemer tower re-purposed as a lighthouse by Dunmer. If nobody is against that idea, I think we could just go with that.

As for names: Kngchend, Mzurchand, Nchurchand? I like Mzurchand myself, but it might be a little too standard.
Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:10 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I agree with Gnomey's post.

The lighthouse thing is not supposed to be something that is thought too much about. The point is for it to shine light in the exterior and be visually appealing from Andothren.

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Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:22 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
immortal_pigs
Developer
15 May 2008

Location: Utrecht

I like Kngchend, sounds a bit more distinct. I'm for a thieves guild hideout. The rest Gnomey mentions sounds sensible.
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Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:48 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

I don't think the Thieves Guild would make their base in a giant beacon. Unless the location is taboo to the locals (and Mages Guild and Empire) for some reason. Maybe traps make the ruin near impenetrable except to sneaks like the Guild.

Maybe the upper levels are a temple sanctuary, where acolytes learn the importance of acceptance and humility by dwelling in solitude in the halls of refusal and pride.

Or maybe a lone hermit lives there, half-crazed. But he somehow figured out how to operate the lights.
Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

In the case of a re-purposed Dwemer tower, the light source would probably just be a fire. The lighthouse would probably be in the exterior, so the interior doesn't really need to bear any relation to it. I'm all for the lone hermit taking care of the lighthouse, though. Maybe the player has to convince the lone hermit to let the Thieves Guild set up their base there. Another idea I mentioned in the Andothren [City] thread is that the Thieves Guild try and pass themselves off as an Imperial Archaeological Society dig team.
Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Melchior Dahrk
Developer
28 Nov 2008

Location: Outer Realms

Oh, so it's just some exceptionally tall Dwemer ruin which the Dunmer thought would work well to put a brazier on top of? Repurposed. So the light won't originate from Dwemer lamps.

As to the thieves guild, I suppose sometimes the least expected place to hide is in plain sight.
Post Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Any thoughts on what we want to do with this place? Thieves Guild hangout? Typical Dwemer ruin? Something else? I know we want to make it a Dwemer lighthouse, but that alone can't cover the ruin's entire story.
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Post Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

My preference hasn't changed in the interim, so I'll summarize it tidily:

-the lighthouse is a ruined Dwemer tower on top of which Dunmer placed a light of some description. (Probably a fire).
-the lighthouse probably has a lighthouse keeper who probably lives in the ruin, probably near the entrance.
-the parts of the ruin interior closest to the entrance do not contain any (respawning?) creatures and have mostly been looted bare. (There might still be a cog or something here and there, and perhaps scrap metal hidden in dark corners and such). Otherwise, mostly furniture and the like. These areas, aside from probably housing the lighthouse keeper, would be where the Thieves Guild sets up shop, possibly in the guise of an Imperial Archaeological Society dig team.
-the deeper parts of the ruin would contain a few low-level Dwemer animunculi and some low-level loot. Ideally, they would be made less easily traversable, for example by being very heavily ruined.

I think the interior would only require some alteration, unless someone is very inspired to redo it completely. I would be quite willing to make any alterations myself, whether to the interior or exterior, but would also be happy to see what any other person might be able to come up with.
Post Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:26 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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