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Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Questions About The Dwemeri Lighthouse

1. A purpose, or a symbol?
So the issue has been brought up of what to do with the Dwemer Ruin overlooking Andothren. Or at least, what purpose it serves. From the thread itself, some people want it to be a Comana Tong hangout, some people want a crazy hermit to live there, some want it to be in-cooperated into the TG so you could perhaps persuade the hermit that lives there to let the TG set up base camp there. All-in-all, great ideas. However, I am going to be my usual self and try to shoe-horn my own idea in here in regards to the lighthouse and all the applicable uses for it, beyond just the interior structure.

Taking a look at the actual ruins themselves, they do serve an initial purpose of being overlooking of the Inner Sea, so therefore a retrofitting of a lighthouse upon them makes sense, because it leans towards a salvaging of the current resources after the House War so naturally Velothi inhabitants would be looking to make use of whatever they could from the Dwemer ruins that impeded on their land. One would assume that Andothren was build well after the ruins were originally there, but as tensions rose from the looming war any and all Dunmeri would find an opposition in such a strategic fortress for the enemy. Once they disappeared of course it made it simple to just hash out whatever materials would have been in the upper floors, and for someone to just build a pyre up there and both traders and settlers would have been able to use it to get from port to port over the Inner Sea.

But the idea I have is one of a different nature, one where the fire is scrapped from the top of the ruins and instead it is replaced with a type of beacon or bulb of Dwmeri construct. Hell, I would even be willing myself to find someone to get the mesh created and into assets if need be; I would imagine it would be a unique mesh to just this particular ruin. Now the reasoning I have behind this is because I, being the jerkwad I am, like all things symbolic and mystical (oooh, ahhh, whatever...) so to me, this idea of a type of beacon then being retrofitted, or repurposed, is pretty significant in a few different ways.

2. Is this something Velothi peoples would do?

So the question that arises first of all, is would it be within traditional Dunmeri nature to even want to be associated with any type of profane technological constructs? i.e.: Would they even touch the beacon/bulb/whatever in the first place, or would they just destroy it? At first this rises an issue of integrity which one would imagine the Dunmri hold in high regards (especially considering the region in which the ruins are in), so what purpose would it serve to them to assimilate their technology?

The prose of this is, to me, a type of symbolic 'middle finger' to the Dwemer, and as a people who are believers of the Walking Ways, this sort of pesudo-mantling of this beacon would be a Path to AE, or a type of Divining Rod tactic that basically translates into 'You people are gone and ours remain to ascend into the real Heavens, we will take your beacon of profane arts and Transform it into a beautiful pathway for us and our ancestors and the next generations to Follow.'

3. What significance would the beacon originally have held?

It may or may not be within current Dwemeri canon to say that the Dwemer were any type of 'religious' sort, but more certainly they did like to think of their culture as a 'higher form' of life, and in some ways may consider themselves as gods or arch-gods of a certain form. I know that a lot of different idealogical boundaries are placed within the grand scheme of Dwemer culture, but bare with me as I try to explain my reasoning in regards to the beacon and what it would do.

So, we are all aware of the Orrey and of Stros M'Kai and the Dwemeri fascination with Aether and beyond, being a realm-venturing culture and all...so the ruins themelves which are on the edge of the Outer Continent of Mainland Morrowind could have this beacon built into the ruins, on top of them, as a sort of 'paradigm shift' to show a sign of technical prowess and also as a type of retribution to the metaphysic and otherwise mysticism-based idols and ideals the Dwemer. Think of what we see in Skyrim from the functional massive constructs and the different types of astral imagery they have aroud their ruins; this type of beacon would be en lieu of that kind of Dwemeri logic, where you have them doing Tonal construction with light fabrication to simulate the progress they were making. Also, from a militant standpoint, the location of where this ruin is situated has a bit of an advantage and I kind of like the idea of the beacon once being so big and bright that it would illuminate the surrounding area in times of darkness, and maybe even it could be used as a type of means of communication to other towers in the area. Perhaps in their eyes they would have been carving a sort of 'cosmic path' to their ascension to godlihood, or even garnering a type of relationship with the stars, which are simply just holes into AE. I'm not saying it would have been the brightest thing ever made in the history of Tamriel, but as we also know, the Dwemer loved to mimic towers and break Earth Bones to formulate higher thought waves and manipulate nature.

In Tribunal we know that they can, at the least, manipulate weather patterns to at least a localized region, so it may not be far off to think that they would try to manipulate different aspects of nature altogether using different tactics, or different mythopoeic signals.

For the Velothi of the area to have at least witnessed or known about the fortress would give reason to believe that they now use the beacon as a sort of reverse symbolization, so help guild their people through the Inner Sea or to let them know that they are nearing the town of Andothren lies near, though I'm not sure if there is anything of specific importance in Andothren personally, so I'm not sure if the town would warrant any type of specific beckoning to people. Maybe pilgrims could have followed the light to guide them to a temple that may be near by, or maybe the beacon itself could be a pilgrimage site? In regards to what would be in there, I would want to wager that, like Gnomey, the upper floors are somewhat bare; if the idea of the beacon being a pilgrimage site tickles anyones fancy then the upper floors could be somewhat kept up and have small vigils or service members in them. The lower floors could be ruinous and maybe have a cool Dwemeri book down there that would hint towards what the beacon would originally have been for?

Just spitballing ideas here, please let me know if I need to expand on anything or flesh out and ideas.
Post Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:13 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



...nothing?
Post Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:47 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Hello, Iron Maidens. Sorry for the lack of responses, but the length of your post makes replying to it rather challenging. Long posts tend to scare people away, more often than not, and yours deals with complex lore concepts and multiple threads of thought. Truthfully, I think you might be putting a little too much thought into the concept behind this one ruin. We do appreciate the effort you put into your post and your enthusiasm, though.

Im not sure whether we want to go with a Dwemer beacon as the source of the lighthouse's light. How would the Dunmer know how to operate it?

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Post Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:27 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



In regards to operation of it; it could be as simple as there just being a button next to it, plus the beacon was already turned on during the disappearance of the dwarves, so after the event it simply just stayed on. The Velothi did't literally take control over it, more or less they 'metaphysically' did, in a more divine way. I.E. they could have simply just turned the beacon off but instead they wanted to show the Dwemer (weather they did or didn't ascend into AE) that they were the true victors of the House War.

Look, I know it seems like I'm putting too much thought into a stupid ruin, but I'm just exploring ideas for making seemingly mundane things a little more interesting. Why not have a little cool backstory to the ruin? Why just make it another hermit hole...? Maybe it only make sense to me, but it can't hurt to try and shoot some ideas around.
Post Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I certainly agree about no harm coming from shooting ideas around. But I also think we should avoid overburdening Morrowind with locations with extensive back story, and instead save that kind of intense location characterization for truly special locations like Necrom and Kemel-ze.
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Post Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



It's not intensive. It's not even very in-your face. It's subtle. If you think about it, Morrowind's a biiig place. You guys asked what to do with the ruins, so I'm just answering. It's not like I'm saying we need to redo the entire exterior, just replace one mesh with another...

Also, it adds aesthetic beauty to the surrounding area, and also makes the region unique and memorable. It might give someone a reason to make a mod in the area with a house there, or who knows. In the grand scheme of things, I can understand your hesitation; but really you can trust me to not just BS around and try to provoke pointless integration into the mod. It's a hard balancing act, I know, to try and justify complexity to practicality, but I can assure you that I'm only trying to tactfully give a little flavor and add a little bit of interesting lore to the land. And yes I know it's not lore that adds anything at face-value, and yes I'm aware that there's no need for me to try and act like having a beacon on a Dwemer ruin is even anything of importance, and it's not, really. But I'd rather just try to justify my thought process on it so it makes a little more sense.
Post Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:32 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



You know...thinking about it now, here's the provincial reason why I want to have the lighthouse be this way. A lot of the best lore in any video game is the lore that is subtle, as in not just right in your face. You can just walk right by it and it would make no difference. To some players, it would just be a cool sight or landmark to the region. But to those who wanted to take the time to explore the ruin, they would be rewarded with the deeper meaning/explanation of what the beacon is doing there. Unless there is some sort of concrete evidence that would suggest the Dwemer would not try to have a subversive sect of profane high-priests or ascended tinkerers of some sort that would commission the building of such a structure, I'm just going to stick to my guns on the issue.

It's simply just a matter of exploration and immersion to me for this ruin. I'm not even in the loop, I don't know if the interiors have been worked on yet, I don't know if it's all up in the air in regards to what's being done or been done on the lighthouse. Just let me know if I should go on the hunt or not for the mesh of the beacon. Basically what I'm having in mind is a large coiled-like bulb, or even something that looks like it would belong in Blackreach. Like a brass orb construct with a type of emittance field, but I am leaning more towards an ornate type bulb for it.
Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



It is my preference that the lighthouse be a Dwemer device because that would make a lot better visuals than just some guy with fire burning in a Dwemer tower ('how would Dunmer operate it' being a question of the dumb sort), but I don't understand Ironed_Maidens' posts in this thread.
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Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:42 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



I'm basically just giving a thought out reasoning to why I want the lighthouse to be of Dwemer creation as well...
Post Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Sload wrote:
It is my preference that the lighthouse be a Dwemer device because that would make a lot better visuals than just some guy with fire burning in a Dwemer tower ('how would Dunmer operate it' being a question of the dumb sort), but I don't understand Ironed_Maidens' posts in this thread.
I think the source of my dumb question (the dumbness of which I fully admit to) was the complicated way Ironed_Maidens voiced his argument for the Dwemer beacon. Your aesthetic reasoning is something I can latch onto much more readily.
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Post Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Yeah, ok, soooo, the reason why I felt the need to explain the entire reason why I think the lighthouse should be changed is because you guys tend to be dicks about anything being changed without a full in-depth reasoning with valid points and a few pretty-pleases thrown in. So excuse me for just trying to tread the line of pompous attitude you guys draw sometimes.
Post Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I apologize, Ironed Maidens, if our posts are coming across as pompous. I appreciate the time you spent explaining your idea. In-depth explanations certainly help when discussing changes that will affect the project on multiple fronts. Otherwise, shorter concise posts tend to work best.
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Post Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:13 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I am all for the Dwemer lighthouse having a Dwemer light on top of it, and think for that kind of thing an aesthetic argument is quite sufficient. While I'm not sure if it needs a custom model, if someone is willing to make one I won't object to it.
If we're going with a Dwemer light source, I'd almost aesthetically prefer if it were just a Dwemer light partially torn from its mountings and overloaded so that it is very bright. However, a purpose-built beacon also works.
Post Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



I can get the model, I think it deserves it's own unique one. I'll scout around for it. And for the record, can I PLEASEEEE GET ACCESS TO POST IN THE DEVELOPERS THREADS??

If only because I want to let it be known that I'm going to get someone to get the model for the cove done as well.
Post Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Marandahir
Member
09 Dec 2008



One question about this: how would this interact with the lighthouse at Seyda Neen?

According to vanilla Morrowind, Seyda Neen's lighthouse is the guiding light for all ships in that part of the Inner Sea; however, Andothren is not that far across the Inner Sea from Seyda Neen. Would having a second lighthouse, albeit of Dwemer-design, be too much concentrated in the same area?

As said elsewhere, Morrowind is a big place; so my question is, why two working lighthouses in nearly the exact same stretch of the Inner Sea, especially when the vanilla text is that Seyda Neen's is the important one? It's already a pretty low-key lighthouse (enough so that there have been multiple mod-projects to try to re-envision it as something greater); I'm concerned that this Dwemer lighthouse might outshine the Imperial one.
Post Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:24 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Still would not mind this...
Post Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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