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Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

The purpose of this thread is to discuss re-naming places that currently have undesirable names.

Names up for Discussion:

Ald Erfoud - A Hlaalu trade outpost in the Armun Ashlands.

Ash Swamp - The ashy swamp located in Redoran lands. New names suggested in the past: Strangled Fen, Gray Meadows

Ayemar - An Indoril Manor Estate. The name of the place will also be the name of the noble family that lives there.
Sload wrote:
-Almalexia is not actually called Ayem by the Dunmer, only by Vivec in the 36 Lessons. This castle is literally named "Fort A." I think this is a very poor name that is only excusable by the obscurity of its meaning.

Darnim - A shack village in the Inlet Bog.
Sload wrote:
I agree that Darnim should change. I think the name should be 1 word and consistent with the general "sound" of these names: Akamora, Almalexia, Othrensis, Dondril, Dreynim, Bosmora, Gorne, Roa Dyr, etc

Hla Ruhn - A small village somewhere. New names suggested in the past: Darvanyon, Rahn

Inlet Bog - The current generic name of the large swamp along the coast of the Inner Sea north of Almalexia. New names suggested in the past: Taahn Mur

Reich Parkeep - A Redoran fortress town located inside a mountain. New names suggested in the past: Soluthis (from an Bethesda map), Solenthis

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Post Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Most of these seem like great ideas. However, my opinion would be that Ald Erfoud should be kept. It's name is mentioned in some sort of book (I forgot which), and I honestly think it sounds great. By the way, wasn't Taahn Mur a proposed name for the Ash Swamp?
Post Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:07 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Yeti wrote:
Ald Erfoud - A Hlaalu trade outpost in the Armun Ashlands.


What is bad about it?

Yeti wrote:
Ash Swamp - The ashy swamp located in Redoran lands. New names suggested in the past: Strangled Fen, Gray Meadows


I love "Gray Meadows". This is Morrowind! They camp there in their holidays.

Yeti wrote:
Ayemar - An Indoril Manor Estate. The name of the place will also be the name of the noble family that lives there.
Sload wrote:
-Almalexia is not actually called Ayem by the Dunmer, only by Vivec in the 36 Lessons. This castle is literally named "Fort A." I think this is a very poor name that is only excusable by the obscurity of its meaning.


What exactly is wrong with Ayemar? Is it too sacred?

Yeti wrote:
Darnim - A shack village in the Inlet Bog.
Sload wrote:
I agree that Darnim should change. I think the name should be 1 word and consistent with the general "sound" of these names: Akamora, Almalexia, Othrensis, Dondril, Dreynim, Bosmora, Gorne, Roa Dyr, etc


Agreed.

Yeti wrote:
Hla Ruhn - A small village somewhere. New names suggested in the past: Darvanyon, Rahn


I like Darvanyon, at least if that place can be made to have an ancient history (the name sound like those Dunmeri strongholds).

Yeti wrote:
Inlet Bog - The current generic name of the large swamp along the coast of the Inner Sea north of Almalexia. New names suggested in the past: Taahn Mur


Name sounds good (what does it mean?).

Yeti wrote:
Reich Parkeep - A Redoran fortress town located inside a mountain. New names suggested in the past: Soluthis (from an Bethesda map), Solenthis
[/quote]

+1 for Solenthis.
Post Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Yeti wrote:
Ald Erfoud - A Hlaalu trade outpost in the Armun Ashlands.


There was a problem with Ald Erfoud, but I always forget what it was. Maybe go with something similar-sounding like Arvud?

Yeti wrote:
Ash Swamp - The ashy swamp located in Redoran lands. New names suggested in the past: Strangled Fen, Gray Meadows


My problem with Grey Meadows was that it was technically inaccurate as a description, but that isn't really a big deal. A while back immortal_pigs commented that Grey Meadows sounds more neutral while Strangled Fen sounds more hostile, and I agree with him. What impression is closer to what we want?

Yeti wrote:
Ayemar - An Indoril Manor Estate. The name of the place will also be the name of the noble family that lives there.


Almamar would be closer to the intended meaning, but that would turn 'Fort A' into 'Fort Mother', or the 'Motherfort', and it doesn't sound good anyway. Andamar? Ameyar? I don't know.

Yeti wrote:
Darnim - A shack village in the Inlet Bog.


Maybe call this one Darvanyon? Or is that not consistent enough? It 'sounds' more Indoril than... Redoran? to me. (I forgot where Hla Ruhn was).

Yeti wrote:
Hla Ruhn - A small village somewhere. New names suggested in the past: Darvanyon, Rahn


I think Rahn could work nicely for a small village.

Yeti wrote:
Inlet Bog - The current generic name of the large swamp along the coast of the Inner Sea north of Almalexia. New names suggested in the past: Taahn Mur


I'd spell it Tahn Mur, personally. I don't think the second 'a' improves it much.

Yeti wrote:
Reich Parkeep - A Redoran fortress town located inside a mountain. New names suggested in the past: Soluthis (from an Bethesda map), Solenthis


Soluthis gets my vote, as it sound better to me. I'm not sure how good it sounds to Americans, though. (I'd pronounce it so-LOO-this, with a strong 'th', like 'theme').
Post Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Erfoud doesn't look Dunmer at all to me, plus it's a name for a town in Morocco.
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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:45 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Inlet Bog should be given an English language name.
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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:39 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Yeti wrote:
Erfoud doesn't look Dunmer at all to me, plus it's a name for a town in Morocco.


Ald Erfoud sounds like a dunmer name to me. And anyways, it has been mentioned in lore, and therefore, I see no good reason to change anything.

And Sload, I definitely agree with you on the Inlet Bog naming. According to this map: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/download.php?id=21784, the Ash Swamp is named Taahn Mur, not the Inlet Bog.
Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:56 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

RyanS, the Inlet Bog is not the Ash Swamp! Never has been either.
Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:27 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I think both the Inlet Bog and the Ash Swamp (which everyone understands are different regions, the confusion comes from the fact that "Taahn Mur" has been applied to both of them) should have English language names. We have a higher density of gibberish names like "Roth Roryn" than vanilla and more English names would be good.
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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:36 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

By the way, the potential name replacements I included in my first post don't represent the names I prefer. I just wanted to organize the names other people have suggested in other threads into one convenient place.
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Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Aeven wrote:
RyanS, the Inlet Bog is not the Ash Swamp! Never has been either.


I completely understand that the Inlet Bog is not the Ash Swamp. They're almost on opposite sides of the province. What I was saying was that originally I thought the name 'Taahn Mur' was meant for the Ash Swamp. That's it.

Edit: Looking back at my post, it does look I thought both regions were the same thing. Sorry for the confusion.
Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:18 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Taahn Mur was originally considered as a name for the Ash Swamp until people realized it sounded confusingly similar to Baan Malur. I think Tahn Mur might be worth using somewhere, but agree that giving Inlet Bog and the Ash Swamp English names seems like a good idea.

I think we should consider deferring the naming of Inlet Bog for when we know exactly what we actually plan to do with the region.
Post Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Here be my two cents:

Ald Erfoud -> Ald Mennaan (i think that Bethesda's chosen name for the town is not accidental but a deliberate real world reference, but I'd still change it; it kinda bugs me)
Ayemar ->Ammar
Darnim -> Ildrim
Hla Ruhn -> Rahn (humble fishing village names for humble fishing villages instead of Darvanyon; for consistency's sake)
Reich Parkeep -> Soluthis (with this Beth name I'm fine with)
Ash Swamp -> Grey Meadows

as for the Inlet Bog, I agree with what Gnomey said.

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Post Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:46 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

The main problem I have with 'Gray Meadows' is that it's not a meadow.
Post Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:18 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



i sort of like the contradiction there; and the word 'grey' in the name suggests that this meadow is not a meadow but something else.

(and of course there are real-life cases of flood-meadows/water-meadows)

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Post Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:40 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I love your names for the settlements, Rats. If we go with the Meadows theme for the Ash swamp, I prefer Gray to Grey for reasons I cannot entirely explain. I guess the letter a strikes me as more Redoran, or something. I don't really know.
Laughing

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Post Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:06 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Yeti wrote:
I love your names for the settlements, Rats. If we go with the Meadows theme for the Ash swamp, I prefer Gray to Grey for reasons I cannot entirely explain. I guess the letter a strikes me as more Redoran, or something. I don't really know.
Laughing


Oh yeah, agreed -- gray's also the American spelling of the color so I guess we're bound to use it in any case Very Happy

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Telvayn
Member
28 Jan 2014



Rats wrote:
Oh yeah, agreed -- gray's also the American spelling of the color so I guess we're bound to use it in any case Very Happy

Bethesda uses both versions with grey being more common than gray.
Post Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

I'm fine with Grey Meadows. As for Inlet Bog, we should wait until we have a better idea what to do with that region.
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Post Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:07 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

In today's Skype meeting, the following names have been dedefecated. While I think there can still be room for discussion and change, for the time being these are the names we're going with, so we can hopefully move past seeing these locations called one thing on a map, another thing in planning threads and a third in the latest file.

If one of these names does get discussed further, and people decide it should be changed, please do not use the new name until a clear consensus is reached in this thread. (Or in a future Skype meeting, or IRC, or whatever platform we end up using to reach a consensus). Really, I'd suggest leaving off any further name changes until we open up the applicable sections, and making the final decisions then.

Ald Erfoud -> Arvud. Ald Erfoud, or just Erfoud, could remain as an Imperial name, much like Blacklight for Baan Malur.
Ascadian Coast -> leave as is. The name is fairly uninteresting, but the region is merely an extension of the Ascadian Isles, and the only reason it is not called Ascadian Isles is because it isn't islands. If we come up with a unique concept for this region, I think a new name would make more sense.
Ash Swamp -> Grey Meadows
Ayemar -> Ammar
Darnim -> Ildrim
Hla Ruhn -> Rhanim
Reich Parkeep -> Soluthis
Strond -> Dunkreath
Verarchen -> leave as is.
Frakhelm -> Ystralond.
various small unnamed Redoran hamlets -> these should not be named until we decide what they are, which will happen when we tackle House Redoran.
Post Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

I see no need to change Darnim, although Ildrim does sound better. The other changes are all cool.
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Post Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:33 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

The reason for the Darnim name-change was due to the amount of similar-sounding Indoril villages. (Darnim, Dreynim, Dondril). There was nothing wrong with the name itself.
Post Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Fair enough
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Post Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:39 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Two minor names to figure out:

First of all, there is a cave in TR_Mainland called Vul, written the same as the Velothi town. While originally I figured we could just rename the cave, it seems that would create an incompatibility. Renaming the town would not.
I personally like the name of the town, and as such would like to use something close to it. (As one use of the name is for a dungeon and the other is for a settlement, their sounding similar should not cause the player any confusion). Ideas that were suggested are:

Vhul
Vuhl
Vull
Vol

Vhul was the preferred option, and we'll probably go with that. I figured I might as well leave the room open for discussion anyway.

Secondly, it might be useful to give the hamlet I made dedicated to Felms a name. As it's a really small, minor settlement without even a named exterior cell, I'd personally be fine with leaving the name up to whoever does the NPCing, but if someone has a good name handy we might as well use it.
Post Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:30 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Gnomey wrote:
Vhul


+1. Vhul it is.

Gnomey wrote:
... leaving the name up to whoever does the NPCing, but if someone has a good name handy we might as well use it.


+1

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dady977
Member
16 Sep 2014

Location: Center Of The Ring

Ald Erfoud > Erfoud doesn't sound dunmeri at all, maybe a new name? Ald Vahn?

Ash Swamp > Strangled Fen, it sounds very mysterious, and it would be a great name for a swamp, as swamps tend to be full of mystery

Ayemar > I agree, who names their family "Fort A"? It's a poor choice

Darnim > Sulthius, Varanym? Just some generic names

Hla Ruhn > Rahn, it just sounds like a great name

Inlet Bog > Taahn Mur, sounds very dunmer-like

Reich Parkeep > Solenthis
Post Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:54 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

New name change suggestions based off of Swiftoak's concept plans:

Inlet Bog -> Sundered Scar

Seyda Vano -> Id Vano

Akamora -> split into Dun Senim, Bet Yhdas and Umul as per Gnomey's March 27, 2015 post here.

Dun Akafell -> Dun Aamul

Tomaril Manor -> Bis Indaryn

Bosmora -> Lan Murha

Ayemar -> Am Mar

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Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



The post is linking to a non-existent post Yeti. Though I am pretty interested in the name changes; why Akamora and Dun Akafell if you don't mind me asking?
Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Am Mar should really be Ammar. Spelled as two words it resembles the phrase am Meer found in Real Life place names a bit too much.

The inevitable changes proposed for Akamora and its surroundings are a really huge deal and there's still a lot to be discussed. I think it warrants its own Forum Section.

Edit: and to reply ironed maidens: Akamora is being revised into a group of close-knit Indoril castle-estates and a Velothi town, hence the changes.

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Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:07 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
klep
Lead Developer
23 Nov 2014

Location: Europe

Was gonna propose Ammar as well. Other than that, nice names!

I do wonder to what the Sundered Scar region owes the Scar in its name.
Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theminimanx
Lead Developer
26 Jan 2014

Location: GMT +1

Sundered Coast was proposed by Yeti in the meeting. I personally like that one a bit better. Scar implies that it'll never heal, despite the fact that an Indoril player will end up being responsible for getting that area (or at least the castle-estate) back into shape.

I also noticed that Swiftoak was changing some names of the Dres settlements. I'm personally used to the old ones, so I can't comment on their quality, but I do wonder why Tear was given a different name. I know it was from lore.

Lastly, there was apparently discussion about Mournhold/Almalexia during the meeting, though it's unclear if any conclusion was reached. I'd personally suggest calling it Mournhold in-game. If we have Almalexia refer to both the goddess and the place, it could become a problem when assigning dialogue to that topic. On the other hand, the name Mournhold is unique to the city.

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Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:29 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Theminimanx wrote:
... I do wonder why Tear was given a different name. I know it was from lore.

I, too, am adamantly against calling Tear something else than Tear.

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Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:46 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Ironed Maidens wrote:
The post is linking to a non-existent post Yeti. Though I am pretty interested in the name changes; why Akamora and Dun Akafell if you don't mind me asking?
Odd, the link works fine for me. Is it not working for anyone else?

As for the names, you'd have to ask Swiftoak about the specific thought process behind their creation. Personally, I feel the replacements he suggested sound more inherently "Dunmer" and avoid the cookie cutter nature of the former names, which rely too heavily on combining pre-existing Dunmeri prefixes (Aka, Mora, Fell) together.
Rats wrote:
Am Mar should really be Ammar. Spelled as two words it resembles the phrase am Meer found in Real Life place names a bit too much.
Pardon my ignorance, but could you list some examples? I can't think of any real life place names that use that phrase off the top of my head. I'd prefer keeping it as two words, since Swiftoak sort of made that a trend for naming Indoril Castle Estates (Dun Senim, Roa Dyr, ect).
Rats wrote:
The inevitable changes proposed for Akamora and its surroundings are a really huge deal and there's still a lot to be discussed. I think it warrants its own Forum Section.
I agree, though it might be a bit early to begin work on the region in earnest.
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klep
Lead Developer
23 Nov 2014

Location: Europe

Am Meer is German for At Sea, which is used a lot in RL place names, both officially as unofficially to point out that a certain place is near the sea.

I am personally not a big fan of Am Mar, regardless of the German thing or the fact that mar (or something similar) means sea in several languages. I do like the idea of keeping castle-estate names two worded though. Unfortunately my creativity isn't up to the task.
Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Quote:
Pardon my ignorance, but could you list some examples? I can't think of any real life place names that use that phrase off the top of my head. I'd prefer keeping it as two words, since Swiftoak sort of made that a trend for naming Indoril Castle Estates (Dun Senim, Roa Dyr, ect).


Honestly now it's by the sea in German, which is bit too much on the nose Ammar being by the sea. I have to admit that I'm obviously biased here since I first suggested Ammar, but I still like it better than Am Mar. If having two words for the estates' names is something characteristically Indoril then maybe something else than Am Mar?

edit: Ok, a change of heart. The more I repeat it the more I can look past RL similarities; Am Mar is fine by me.

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Last edited by Rats on Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:57 am; edited 2 times in total
Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:04 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



What about Yhen Dar, or Uhuin Dar?
Post Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:14 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Marandahir
Member
09 Dec 2008



Link to Gnomey's post doesn't work for me either, Yeti. Ammar sounds better to me.
Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:03 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Copy-and-pasted from Gnomey's post in the link:

Akamora will essentially become four settlements. The town itself will be remade in the Velothi tileset further east by the town's eggmines, and will be renamed Umul. Its manors, however, will not be moved over, as Velothi do not have nobles or manors.
Instead, the manors of the most important nobles questwise will be transformed into castle-estates which will remain in the area, and any other nobles that need to be kept will probably be relocated to Almalexia along with as many of Akamora's MH interiors as can be crammed in.



The largest of the castle-estates -- Dun Senim -- will be located where Akamora currently is and should preserve the overall aesthetic of the settlement. It will be home to Indoril Ienen Tomaril. The Tomaril Manor to the south will be kept as a smaller castle-estate, but renamed Bis Indaryn. It will be home to Indoril Ivis Oryalen. The last castle-estate will be a new one, also small, to the east of Dun Senim, which will be called Bet Ydhas. It will be home to Indoril Eras Andil.

The core of the conflict between the above nobles -- and perhaps others in Almalexia -- will essentially be over Dun Akafell, which will be renamed Dun Aamul. Dun Aamul was once a prestigious castle-estate which has long laid in ruin. Its domain has essentially been swallowed by Dun Senim, but now Dun Senim's lord Indoril Ienen Tomaril is old and heirless, and various claimants are angling to ensure that they will be the next to inherit the domain.

If we're going to keep the conflict over the egg mines, the reason for the conflict won't have anything to do with the profits of the mines, but instead the egg mines are simply part of Dun Aamul's garden, and the nobles attempt to show that they are lord of the area by tending it as they would any other part of the garden. Similarly, some of the lords might try and stop the southward spread of House Telvanni as a way of weeding 'their' garden and showing that they are in control.

The Imperial guilds will still be located in Umul. They basically took advantage of the confusion to establish themselves, and have been trying to ingratiate themselves with the locals, and especially the Indoril nobles, since.


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Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:58 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

To keep the two-word naming motif, I would like to propose Dar Ammar as a compromise name.
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Post Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
klep
Lead Developer
23 Nov 2014

Location: Europe

I like.
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