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Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

This is the Old Ebonheart Section File (formerly M3A1). All work on OE will be done on this file, and this file only.

Attached is the actual merge. Thanks to arvisrend and Sload for the post format.

WORKFLOW CONVENTIONS:

- If you want to edit this file (and are a developer), please ask the section leads for approval first (ninja edit: that's Swiftoak, Rats, gro-Dhal or Haplo). IRC is the easiest way to do that.

- If you want to do any kind of edits on the file and you have been greenlighted, please make sure that noone else has claimed it and then please claim it for yourself. Claiming the file means making a post (here in this thread) in which you explicitly announce in boldface that you are now working on the file. Once you either have made your changes or decide that you aren't going to, or just want to take a break, drop your claim by again announcing in boldface that you are no longer editing the file (and, obviously, uploading your latest version along with relevant information). To make this efficient, don't shy away from dropping and claiming liberally. If you know you have no time to work on the file for the next 2 days, do drop it -- maybe someone else will ninja in some edits in that time. Of course, you should not claim the file if someone else has it currently claimed.

- You don't need to get greenlighted by the section leads every time you want to re-claim the file; one approval (normally) lasts forever. That is, unless you're intent to make big (and/or possibly controversial) changes (e. g., new quests, or an overhaul of a region, or a new plantation); such changes should always be first suggested, then discussed and only then implemented (or not).

- The newest version of the file is always going to be attached to a recent post (not the first post in the thread, because not everyone has editing rights). Please be sure to change the version number after every iteration, so we can keep track of what file is the latest.

-Any proposal for additional work to be done on these files should be made in a separate thread. Once a proposal is worked out & approved by the section team, it will be put into the list of things to be done on that merge.

-Posts in the merge threads should be limited to posts about the status of the file - who is working on it, who wants to work on it to do what, what needs to be done still, et cetera. New ideas or questions should go into other threads.

SPECIFICS:

07/07/2014: As of this date, all work should be focused on the town proper, and not the castle. We have yet to iron out our plans for it. I repeat, PLEASE DO NOT START ANY WORK ON THE CASTLE.

Current priorities include merging all of OE town ints into the file. Seneca is working on reviewing the last few. You can view the maps in Rats' thread HERE.

There is also an outstanding proposal for some minor exterior work concerning widening the Thirr and adding a few minor islands to the river delta to give it a more natural look. (Similar to Gnomey's work on the North-Andothren merge).



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Last edited by Swiftoak on Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Up-to-date map with complete list of interiors in this thread.

also: so excited that the work on populating OE is starting! Smile

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Post Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:51 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Derp.

New file with region paint and fixed cell names for the city.



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"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
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Post Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:06 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

New file, all interiors (in the town) have been merged (not linked yet) except the claims 278, 725, 765, 591. The last is the sewers being worked on by Rats, the other three are in final reviewing.

Will try to get them linked soon.



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"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
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Post Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:39 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Releasing file

-All interiors in Old Ebonheart's town (with the exception of aforementioned claims) have been merged, linked, and named. Anyone who wants to take a stab at basic NPCing should be able to now, and is of course free to change the cell names at their discretion.

-Did some minor cluttering of back alleys. Someone should add some more stuff like misc items, crates, etc to give OE's back alleys a seedier character. Added some awnings to some strucutres. I also added a table outside the grocer, though didn't clutter it. Someone should add things like foodstuffs on display and have someone standing outside. That area feels kind of barren.



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"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
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Post Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Sure, I'll take a stab at sprinkling in some NPCs.If somebody wants the file back, give a holler and I'll return it promptly.

Claiming

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Last edited by Yeti on Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Awesome! Didn't expect this so soon either, and this is exactly what I want to hear Smile

I would suggest giving a look at Rats' interior list. Some good notes were made on specific interiors. I tried to accomodate for that when naming them, as well as OE's cosmopolitan nature.

For example, the Fetchers' Pawn should be manned by a pair of Dunmer ripping off Imperials, etc. etc. I also have some variation between Colovian and Nibenese imperials so work that in somehow if you have time.

Anyways I don't know how long you'll have this and I don't want to seem overbearing. Feel free to ignore my suggestions Razz

Can't wait to see some people in OE finally.

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Post Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:28 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch2o
Developer
15 Jul 2014



Would have been nice to have these in latest release, but not reviewing or merging so many interiors should allow for another fairly significant update much sooner.
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Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Great job naming the interiors, Swiftoak! Really captures the mood OE should have. Couldn't have done it any better.

I might wanna place some exterior exits for the sewers at some point but in the mean time have fun NPCing, Yeti!

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Post Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:50 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Yeti wrote:
Sure, I'll take a stab at sprinkling in some NPCs.If somebody wants the file back, give a holler and I'll return it promptly.

Claiming


I hope it's not too late to make a couple of suggestions:

- It's a cosmopolitan but Imperial-dominated city. I would make it 50% Imperials, 50% everyone else but see what works best for you.

- Probably no Tribunal worshippers, even among the city's Dunmer.

- Population are proud of their city to the point of arrogance, some rarely travel to non-Imperial parts of the province and consider the city an outpost of Cyrodiil.

- The sharper inhabitants might be a little fatalistic because they know that the future is uncertain.

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Post Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:31 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



gro-Dhal wrote:
what gro said


+1

edit: also, it suddenly occurred to me that we definitely should see if P:C has some cool Cyrodiil-unique clothing available and if we could use them for our NPCs in OE

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Post Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:45 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

No worries, gro-Dhal. I've only added a handful of NPCs so far. I'll make sure to make the Imperials the dominate race here.

The issue with using Province Cyrodiil's clothes is that they are designed for Better Bodies, and I believe TR should still remain 100 percent compatible with vanilla assets (plus I think Better Bodies make NPCs look like porcelain final fantasy people).

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Post Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Didn't Ashstaar also make specific Imperial-themed clothing? Were any merged?

(I assume you already know this but just in case: ) Some interiors, even generic homes, were made with specific NPCs in mind (eg the one this takes inspiration from), so having a look at the int claim threads and paying attention to any custom references placed in them is essential to avoid incoherencies between locations and NPCs.

Some of the newly-added OE texts should be sprinkled in there at some point (Imperial Heraldry in Morrowind , The Hundred Dream-Visions of Kallistis, Mystery Play of Old Ebonheart, The Ebon Heart of Morrowind: A History... any others?)
Post Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:06 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Something I couldn't help noticing: most Old Ebonheart interiors have descriptions for their occupants that can't be related to players without dialogue.It will require a lot of unique dialogue to detail the NPCS with specific backgrounds. Maybe even reaching Helnim levels. Is this something we feel comfortable pursuing?

@rot: Read this thread. it relates to one of your comments.

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Post Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Yeti wrote:
descriptions for their occupants that can't be related to players without dialogue.


Perhaps extraneous details/stuff that sounds excessive for broad NPCing but might still be of use later... could be added as comments to their Background entries? (though ofc interior claim suggestions don't always have to be followed)
Post Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Hey, Yeti! Could you upload the most current file? I'd like to claim it in order to perform the following changes:

_adding exterior entrances to the sewers (4 in total)

_slightly rearranging the Docks to fit an Imperial Warship

_adding a scripted gate to the main gates of OE, which can be raised/lowered from the gatehouse

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Post Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:13 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Here's a minor update, just so everyone knows I'm still working on this off and on.


TR_OldEbonheart_v.0037.esp
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 Filename:  TR_OldEbonheart_v.0037.esp
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Post Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Claiming this for doing stuff mentioned in my previous post.
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Post Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:12 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



File updated to v.0040. Claim dropped for now and up for grabs.

_added an Imperial Warship in the Docks (do view it in game: looks pretty sweet)
_added an entrance to the sewers in the Docks
_added fitting banners to the Imperial Navy Command Post

The Docks before:



The Docks after:




TR_OldEbonheart_v.0040.esp
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 Filename:  TR_OldEbonheart_v.0040.esp
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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:02 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch2o
Developer
15 Jul 2014



I think this looks strange not sweet. The warship should be out on water with a smaller craft at docks to shuttle people and cargo aboard. Only small craft should be parked as seen maybe with a single exception. The original androthren docks layout is an excellent example a design that properly accommodates large ships.
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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:19 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

That change would add precisely nothing except irritation for the player. These ships are not enormous- by naval standards they're lightweight and manoeuvrable craft that can navigate the Inner Sea, which is particularly treacherous. The warships are the heaviest usable vessels in this environment.
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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:46 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



I am willing to overlook any kind of strangeness that may inhere in having a ship in the docks on the grounds of Old Ebonheart being a video game representation of a fictional reality.

In addition, having one more ship anchored in the docks creates a more bustling, cramped atmosphere which is aesthetically pleasing in game (that is, of course, a mere opinion):


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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:18 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch2o
Developer
15 Jul 2014



Docks and position of ships should be revised.

Normally a tall ship would not pull in to a dock... it would anchor at mooring in the harbor, and goods and people would be shuttled back and forth via smaller sail-powered or rowing boats. When it was ready to leave, the outgoing tide, coupled with wind, would pull it out to sea.

When it did need to take on larger supplies, such as new guns, masts, things of that nature, it could pull in to a pier using a process called warping. Basically this just involved tying off a stout line to the pier and then winding it around the capstan, which was a cylindrical pully of sorts, with bars that stuck out of it horizontally. Lots of men would push the capstan bars around in a circle, winding the rope tighter and simply pulling the ship in to the pier. I know that the same process was used to bring it back out into the deeper water of the harbor, but I'm not sure offhand what the line would be tied to then.


source:
http://ask.metafilter.com/45303/How-did-massive-ships-embark-from-the-pier

More large ships can also fit by docking side by side with boards between them as seen here:
http://articles.dailypilot.com/2011-12-29/news/tn-dpt-1230-tallships-20111230_1_historic-ships-hawaiian-chieftain-lady-washington

Assuming that the docks wont look as interesting or play as well if made more accurate doesnt make any sense. It only shows laziness of planning and design. This is also not so much opinion as fact. Those ships would have a hell of a time getting out of those narrow slots and correcting this would make the area more interesting, immersive and diverse. WHy? Having a ship anchored offshore where the player can "sail" out to it would create a unique and interesting experience. I don't not think it would create much of a hassle at all. Only small-mid size boats should be in those narrow areas.

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:45 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
rot
Lead Developer
21 Oct 2012



Rats wrote:
screenies


Ship looks great and new! Not bothered by placement but isn't the mages(?) emblem too bright for the asymmetry it generates next to the legion one - at least on that dayscreen.
Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Thanks, rot! The screenshots have a slightly increased contrast and saturation, so there shouldn't be too much of (or any) asymmetry when viewed in-game. Also: colors = pretty. Very Happy

edit: Sasquatch, I think there are a lot of things which don't have to make any sense in Morrowind due to the fact that it's video game (set in a fantasy world, nonetheless) and video games follow their own logic. The pretend-infrastructure we're creating here doesn't have to be functional in real life terms.

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:28 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Great job, Rats and Yeti!

And wow, that ship looks beautiful. Very Happy

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Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:31 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Theminimanx
Lead Developer
26 Jan 2014

Location: GMT +1

Sasquatch: While you're right about docked ships being unrealistic, the alternatives are:
-Have the player swim to the ships - completely ridiculous looking.
-Use smaller boats to teleport to the ships - kind of immersion breaking.
-Implement some sort of sailing - would either have the journey take too long if scripted, or be completely outside the scope of this project if controllable by the player

So ultimately it's the best of a few bad choices.

Plus, in Morrowind visual storytelling should always take priority over realism, and docks filled with ships tell a vastly different story than empty docks.
Post Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:31 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Suggestion for an update. This is v.0040 but with special regional sounds, to make the OE urban experience a little more unique and immersive without being too 'moddy'.

I've made the city its own region ("Old Ebonheart Region") with its own atmospheric sound effects. They are modified wind sounds from vanilla Morrowind with subtle sound effects one might expect to hear in a medieval city (doors and signs creaking, craftsman's tools being used in the distance). The only really prominent sound effect is a distant bell ringing from the tower.

Extract the zip file to Sound\TR\fx. Take a walk. Take a walk with in game music, take a walk without the in game music. Lemme know what's wrong and what's right.



TR_OldEbonheart_v.0040_wsounds.esp
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ebonheart_sounds.zip
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You'll need to extract these files to Sound -> TR -> fx

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 Filename:  ebonheart_sounds.zip
 Filesize:  4.89 MB
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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:03 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch2o
Developer
15 Jul 2014



I would separate the wind from the other sounds so they can be mixed. Multiple sounds can be stacked that way to create the desired effect. In addition to what you have:

- ambient sound for outside/inside tavern
(muffled outside crisp inside)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F53pEr1oUFE
- marketplace sound (maybe)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrRf7k6wVEs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdMlKVio0LA&index=63&list=UUH-ZgYzzenGoSZ9-QUy5Dvw

- bird songs

- scurrying of small critter for caves and dungeons

Rats, when I opened your file I did not see any of the sounds placed in Ebonheart. I assume this is a problem on my end. Your OE file is set as active and the sounds placed in the right folder.

Remaining exterior problems:
(note that some of this may be a problem with my file version)

- There is a group of ocean floor clutter under landmass by docks. This should be dragged out into water.
- TR_ex_com_plank_pile still has serious caspering issues.
- Galleon should be in harbor not dock, but at very least should be at the end of dock parallel to shoreline.
- Bell needs should be supported by beams not hung from rope. The rope is used to rotate bell not for support. This is a minor issue but beams should be added at least.

-------------------------------------------------------------
- I would also like to propose making slight modifications to one of the apartments for a pretty thieves apt. (this is dependent on how thieves and criminal locations are laid out).
- Several more NPC should be added to docks and in the public square by gardens
- In strip of ground between streets behind row of buildings I'd add some smashed up crates and several people sitting back there drinking or a small garden in the open area and add a backdoor to the building by it. I would also move ladder next to window and place loaddoor version to allow player to break into Rifskald Whalebane's home through window. (maybe use this for a TG quest)
- Add two vendor stalls in public square and one in the open are inside city walls by the docks

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Post Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



The sounds aren't placed in fixed points in the city exterior cell, but rather they're in the Region sound effects. They should work just fine in the game Smile



As for the sound effects for market squares and taverns (particularly those with human voices) I thought of similar things but ultimately opted not making them. Having audible chatter in the streets when, say, the player has killed the entire city's population or when there's just a handful NPCs walking about would feel weird and moddy; and to have these sound effects conditioned to match the reality of the in-game world via extensive scripting is IMO beyond the scope and interests of TR.

I'm sure there will be other mods in the vein of Morrowind Enhanced Sounds or Ambient Town Sounds that will do the job for us.

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Post Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:10 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch2o
Developer
15 Jul 2014



That is an understandable concern I had thought of as well. I think it would mainly be an issue for the marketplace, hence the (maybe). You have no comments on anything else I wrote? I would really like to see several more NPCs in the exterior stalls added and alley modified as mentioned. Most important is further discussion of OE misc and guild quests.
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Post Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Cool sound stuff rats.

Sasquatch: those all sound like reasonable suggestions.

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Post Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:48 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



I didn't mean to overlook your suggestions by not answering them, sasquatch, I was merely in a hurry. OE does need and will have more NPCs in the exterior cell when the NPCing is continued. The exterior OE could do with some more clutter and the stalls you mentioned. The only thing I wouldn't change is the way the warship is positioned in the docks. I tried it at first when revising the docks, but positioning the ship parallel to the shoreline made it stand out in an unbecoming way in-game. The current arrangement, be it as unrealistic to some as it may be, is better aesthetically IMO.
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Post Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:55 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Claiming for exterior work. Will be adding sewer entrances to the two wells in OE.

/edit: I'll also sprinkle a little NPCs and add general, subtle seediness in the alleys in the eastern part of town

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Post Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:53 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Tondollari
Developer
02 Dec 2013

Location: Louisiana

There's a strange bug I've encountered in cell "Old Ebonheart, Geeshus-aj's fine art". On first entering the cell, my PC is placed in the correct location/orientation in relation to the door. However, all subsequent entries place my PC in the center of the cell, which is in the void outside of the establishment.

As an aside, I would prefer it to be a Breton artist rather than Argonian. I think it would be easier to write for possible quest Liquid Inspiration.
Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:01 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Tondollari wrote:
There's a strange bug I've encountered in cell "Old Ebonheart, Geeshus-aj's fine art". On first entering the cell, my PC is placed in the correct location/orientation in relation to the door. However, all subsequent entries place my PC in the center of the cell, which is in the void outside of the establishment.


There was a problem with the door marker. Fixed now. Thanks for noticing!

Tondollari wrote:
As an aside, I would prefer it to be a Breton artist rather than Argonian. I think it would be easier to write for possible quest Liquid Inspiration.


Hmm, I definitely want this quest to happen though I'm not sure if it makes it that much more harder to write if the artist is an Argonian. Their resistance to poisons would mayhaps be a problem?

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Post Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:22 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

I agree that the Argonians are a little too alien to have an artistic sense that other races would share. Unless we emphasise that Geeshus-aj is into weird conceptual shit that nobody warm-blooded can make sense of.
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Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Whoa, I've had the section file in the works for almost two months now. Once the new TR Data update is released I'll be posting and update.
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Post Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:57 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



New file up.

I'll post a change log later (sorry for the inconvenience). edit: Change log added.



TR_OldEbonheart_v.0050.ESP
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 Filename:  TR_OldEbonheart_v.0050.ESP
 Filesize:  3.58 MB
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OE_changelog_0050.txt
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 Filename:  OE_changelog_0050.txt
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Last edited by Rats on Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:40 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Seneca37
Lead Developer
10 Feb 2014



I forgot to update the texture file for the new warship sails. Using TR_Data v14.12B, the sails will be white. This will be corrected in the next update.
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