Nerdevar's Interior Showcase

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Nerdevar
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Nerdevar's Interior Showcase

Post by Nerdevar »

I have a few questions before I start.

1. Do I require an exterior entrance to my interior?
2. Is there a specific type of interior I need to make (i.e. a burial crypt, house, castle)
3. I've noticed a few floor pieces (notably the in_com_r_center or whatever the rich Imperial room center piece is) has some seams visible, even with grid snapping. In a similar vein, some of the planks don't orient the same way. Are either of those things going to be a problem?

Thanks.
Last edited by Nerdevar on Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Ironed Maidens »

1. No.
2. No, but I believe if you're going to do a commoner's interior they will want you to use a specific mesh to place items on because it's tricky to get them sitting on it without good use of rotation, so it'll show your skills with the CS.
3. No, plus I don't think Necrom ints. would really be needed in a showcase anyway.

Someone will probably come along to correct me, but regardless I hope you have fun and good luck buddy!
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Nerdevar
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Post by Nerdevar »

Alright, thank you! I'll get started then.
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Post by Ironed Maidens »

It's the furn_de_p items that are a PITA to get rotation right on. So I'd suggest using them and playing around a bit with them to see how well you can get items to rest on them. Would suggest toggling wireframe mode in the CS to assist you with this.

No problem, I'll be looking forward to your showcase! We always like new faces around here. ;p
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Nerdevar
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Post by Nerdevar »

This is kind of a silly question, but where should I upload my showcase..?
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Post by Seneca37 »

Upload your showcase in here. Use the "Add an Attachment" feature right below where you've been typing your "Message body". File Comments are not needed. But be sure to attach your file before typing in a message, otherwise your message may disappear and you'll have to retype it.

Also - seams that show when properly grid snapped - not a problem. Rotation issues with planks - you'll just have to deal with that - sometimes if you rotate a plank 180 degrees in either the X or Y axis it will more manageable.

Looking forward to your showcase. :D
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Post by RyanS »

Right here! Just go to 'Add an Attachment' and click on 'Choose File' while posting a message. Good luck!

Edit: Woops, read seneca37's post. :p
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Nerdevar
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Post by Nerdevar »

Holy smokes, you guys are cool.
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Post by Seneca37 »

I looked over your showcase.
Please clean with TESAME - you have "Game Settings" in your file, which need to be removed. Also, I think you have an older version of the TR_Data.esm file. You can get the newest here [url]http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/?q=content/downloads[/url]

Be sure to read the "Guide to Modding for TR", here's the link [url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18224[/url].

The place is a bit on the bare side. You need to add more items, especially on the de_p furniture. Also, try to keep your showcase small. A 3x3 first floor and a 3x3 second floor are plenty.

Edit: They don't have to be 3x3, any 2 story structure is fine - its just easier to fill up a smaller structure.
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Post by Nerdevar »

OK, I'm crossing my fingers on this one. If I'm not supposed to upload another file, I can edit a previous post, but here's my redone showcase.
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Post by Dormichigan64 »

Hey, Nerdevar! Honestly, this is a better showcase than the one I started off with.
Have you tried using the "Rotation" box under the "Reference Data" bar when you double click an item? You can get the exact rotation that you need that way.

I've only been a developer for only about a month myself, so superiors, please don't eat me!

And one more thing. That bookshelf upstairs needs a bit more stuff on it.
"When life gives you lemonade, make lemons. And life will be all like 'what??'" - Phil Dunphy's Phil's-osophy


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Post by Nerdevar »

Thank you! I'll see what I can do about the bookshelf and maybe fine-tune some rotations.
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Post by Nerdevar »

This is almost exactly the same as the above version, just with added objects to the bookshelves and unnoticeable rotation edits. TESAME didn't show anything dirty, so here it is.
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Post by RyanS »

Nice interior, Nerdevar! However, before this goes into official review, I want to let you know that in order for a showcase to pass, every object needs to be almost perfectly placed. Many objects are floating, bleeding, caspering, etc. Also, remember to set lighting/fog in your interior. Use a vanilla Hlaalu house as an example. Other than that, most things seem ok. The detailing could be brought up a tad more, but I don't think it is all that necessary. Good luck!
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Post by Nerdevar »

I'm God-awful at making things fit *perfectly*, but I can certainly try. Many objects are bleeding, I know, but some of them have pointed bottoms, for example, making perfect placement strange and... floaty-looking, I guess. Thank you!
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Post by Dormichigan64 »

A trick that seneca37 taught me: when the bottom lines of the highlight box around an object are dotted/dashed, it usually means it's laying on the surface properly, with a few exceptions like those bowls with the pointy bottoms, and clothes (which you should F twice in stead of once). Other than that, definitely more detail.
"When life gives you lemonade, make lemons. And life will be all like 'what??'" - Phil Dunphy's Phil's-osophy


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Post by Nerdevar »

I'm not used to this much help, and I'm really, REALLY grateful! I'll make this even better for sure.
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Post by Nerdevar »

What I'm hoping is the final version of this (probably not), I've added a bit of detail in the upper room (perfect for polishing your spear) and (I hope) fixed a lot of bleeding issues.
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Post by Seneca37 »

Initial Review

A good first attempt. Grid snapping is right on.
The place does still feel a bit sparse. Additional Candles, Tapestries, food sacks/baskets, crates and more items related to smithing would help.

Read the following comments, make the necessary fixes, then go through and double check for anything that may be bleeding or floating. I didn't list everything - but most items on the de_p furniture are either bleeding or floating or both. You need to work on your rotation a bit more. I would double click on the item, to pull up the item info window. Set the X,Y and Z angle delta rotations to 0.1, and use the up/down buttons next to each angle to adjust the rotation.

Issue: 2nd floor not over 1st floor. This would be one weird looking house. This needs to be fixed. You should also keep the staircase inside the 3x3 structure. I don't know of any Hlaalu buildings with bulges on the side for staircases.

Remove white lights - for the most part, stray light sources should not be used. Provide light with candles/lanterns etc.

Change Ambient and Sunlight settings - use settings from another hlaalu interior. These settings are located in menu option "World" -> "Interior Cell".

Interesting choice for sconces - but don't use them. Hlaaluians use candles or paper lanterns to light their homes. Also remove the com_lanterns - those are used by imperials and this is a Dunmer home. Try to use only de items.

Pointy bottom items: these need to bleed into the surface they are resting on. There is no set amount - but they should all be done the same way. Personally I will hide the entire point. If you look at the object in wire frame mode ("W"), you will see a line around the object just above the point. I lower the object until that line is even with the surface I'm resting it on.

Rugs: rugs can bleed into the floor a bit, if desired, but items place on the rug can not bleed (exceptions would be clothing, or pointy bottom items). The table upstairs is bleeding into the rug.

Books: Books should be related to the interior. Not sure why this person would have a Mysticism book and a skill_long_blade book. If anything this person should have a skill armorer book.

Sacks: Sacks need to bleed a bit into the object they are resting on.

Items resting against walls: Be sure that the item does not poking through the wall. The fishing pole is.

How to tell if an item is resting properly on top of another item: The usual way is to look at the selection box (the red/green/blue lines around a selected object). If the lines around the bottom of the top item are dotted or dashed then the object is resting properly. If the lines are solid - then the object is floating. If the lines are gone - then the object is bleeding. Note that this works most of the time - there are objects - like the dice - that have funky selection boxes. These you have to zoom in close to the object and just look. In your case - the dice are bleeding a bit.

All-in-all not bad. I particularly like the upstairs - this person is obviously a drunk and a slob - you may want to try to expand on that.
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Post by Nerdevar »

While the mysticism book doesn't make sense, I wanted to give the impression that he tests his blades first, but that wasn't clearly conveyed. I'll definitely take everything you said into consideration, and thank you!

Edit: I realize this post doesn't make sense in itself.
The mysticism book shouldn't be there. The long blade book was there to show that he has an understanding of how to use his own work and that he tests it on the dummy downstairs.
Last edited by Nerdevar on Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nerdevar »

I'm starting to get the hang of this (I think). I hope this speaks for itself, but if it doesn't, here:

[spoiler]This house belongs to an alcoholic (former skooma addict: he is trying to quit) who follows the Tribunal loosely. However, he loves to seduce women (as shown by the women's clothing near his bed, along with the fortify endurance+strength/fatigue potions, repair hammer *eyebrow raise*, vintage alcohol under his table to share, and a towel). His day job is a blacksmith, and he loves to test his work as evidenced by the sharp objects embedded in the training dummy. He, as seneca correctly observed (along with everything else), is a slob and a drunkard, plain and simple. He likes to fish in his spare time.[/spoiler]

Also, while I'm here, question: How many chances do I get?
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Post by RyanS »

Cool background info! I may review your showcase soon. If not, someone else will have the time to do so. The official rules are that you get 3 chances per interior. However, nowadays that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Post by Nerdevar »

So I could eventually make another interior? I really want to help with this, mostly to help with my dream job (and because I want this thing to get huge). Either way, I'm hoping this (or the third try) will be the charm.
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Post by RyanS »

Nerdevar wrote:So I could eventually make another interior? I really want to help with this, mostly to help with my dream job (and because I want this thing to get huge). Either way, I'm hoping this (or the third try) will be the charm.
You can make another interior whenever you want! And don't worry, you'll have all the tries in the world to pass the showcase. We occasionally may just want a new, fresh interior. As for this one, I recommend sticking with it for a little longer, even if it doesn't quite pass the next few reviews.

And it is great that you're so determined to help this project. It is always cool to have people like you on the team. :D
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Post by Nerdevar »

It's cool how tight-knit you are here, really friendly too! I'd be more than happy to try (besides, it's fun)! I'm excited for the future of Morrowind in general, and I want to be part of it.
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Post by RyanS »

Look at that, I was able to fit the review in today!
Here's the review-

Clean:Yes
Lighting:Ok
Illegal to Sleep Here:Set

Bleeders:
-all Light_De_Lantern_01 into hooks
-misc_de_fishing_pole into wall
-iron shortsword into table
-repair_prongs into table
-TR_misc_steel_piece_02 into anvil
-bk_BookDawnAndDusk into table
-light_com_redware_lamp into table
-both probe_apprentice_01 into rug.
-probe_bent into rug
-active_de_bed_30 into hook
-both com_sack_03 bleed a bit too much into wall
-chest_small_01 into dresser
-common_amulet_02 bleeds a bit too much
-misc_com_wood_knife into platter
-misc_com_wood_spoon_01 into platter
-misc_com_wood_fork into platter
-Gold_100 into shelf
-TR_furn_de_p_bkend into shelf

Floaters:
-TR_misc_com_cutboard_01 by one corner
-ingred_hound_meat_01 by one end
-ingred_bread_01 over table
-common_skirt_01 and common_shirt_03 into rug. always double 'F' on skirts, shirts, robes, and pants.
-common_belt_01 microscopically. 'F' it and then raise by .005 using position Z.
-TR_misc_dice above table
-active_de_bed_30 floating above one hook
-common_pants_06 above dresser
-misc_de_foldedcloth00 microscopically
-furn_de_tray_01 above shelf
-BookSkill_Armorer2 above shelf
-misc_rollingpin_01 above shelf
-Misc_Com_Wood_Bowl_01 above shelf
-TR_misc_toyguar above shelf
-tr_potion_wine_05 above desk
-Misc_Imp_Silverware_Cup_01 above desk
-sc_paper plain above desk
-Misc_Inkwell above desk

Other Issues:
-Hmm not so sure about the vials in the coal pile. Why are they there? The skooma pipe in the pot is ok though.
-Try to detail the upstairs furn_de_p_table_04 a bit more. It is currently quite empty.
-Try to rotate bk_BookDawnAndDusk a bit to rest its spine on the table.
-The bookend is facing the wrong direction, turn it around and the book will rest easier.
-Rest the quill on the side of the inkwell.

Despite the long list of errors, this is looking quite good! Fix the above errors and I or another reviewer will recommend you for promotion! The hidden skooma pipe was neat. :P
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
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Nerdevar
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Post by Nerdevar »

Thanks for giving me a specific list--I have a good idea of what to work on now!
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Post by Nerdevar »

Quick question:
bk_BookDawnAndDusk is slightly arc-shaped from the front, and I can't set the spine on the table without bleeding the cover into the table. Is there a way, or should I do something else?
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Post by RyanS »

Hmm, have you tried moving it with all 'X' 'Y' 'Z' rotations? If there is really no way to properly place it on the table without bleeding/floating you could replace it with something else.
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein

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Post by Seneca37 »

You are having a hard time with bk_BookDawnAndDusk because it is on a de_p table. The book is quite large and covers many irregular mesh triangles of the table. My suggestion would be to move the book someplace else (flat) and put some smaller items on the table - they will be easier to rotate.

When placing something on a non-flat (irregular) surface, be sure that the item fits within 1 triangle (use "W" to see the mesh). This will make it easier to get the proper rotation. Remember the selection box lines where the 2 items meet should all be dotted/dashed. If the object is bigger than a triangle - scale it smaller - adjust the rotation - then scale it back. Move the item a bit higher and "F" into place. That should work most of the time.
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Post by Seneca37 »

Additional comments
1) Replace the misc_imp_silverware_cup with a Dunmer (De) item. You should not mix de and imp items.
2) Lower the upstairs trap door a bit.
3) I don't see Ryans' mention of this but the furn_de_p_bookshelf_01 is bleeding into the floor a lot.
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Post by Nerdevar »

Question here:

Due to the size of furn_de_tray_01, I can't get it to lie flat on the bookshelf. I'm hoping it's fine if I move it somewhere else?
Edit: Actually, the tray has a borked up rotation. The X rotation and the Z rotation both rotate along the XY or YX axis, making this thing near impossible to rotate. This might take a while.
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Post by RyanS »

You may move anything you wish. It is your showcase, afterall! :D
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
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Post by Nerdevar »

OK so I borked up and can't edit my previous showcase so here's a new one.
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Post by RyanS »

Hey Nerdevar, I'll try to look at this in a day or two.
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
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Post by RyanS »

Here's the review-

TESAME: good
Lighting: ok
Northmarker: must be added!

Bleeders:
-1 ingred_moon_sugar_01 in basket
-furn_de_tray_01 into shelf
-apparatus_a_spipe_01 into table
-Misc_Quill into inkwell

Floaters:
-misc_de_lute_01 on one end
-all Gold_100 on the round table. try to put smaller coins instead
-both Gold_010 on the round table.
-potion_skooma_01 on the round table.
-all ingred_hackle-lo_leaf_01 on one end
-2 ingred_moon_sugar_01 in basket
-misc_com_wood_spoon_01 on one end
-misc_com_wood_knife on one end
-one misc_com_wood_bowl_02 above the other
-potion_skooma_01 on the table
-gauntlet_horny_fist_r on one end
-gauntlet_horny_fist_l on one end
-misc_com_redware_platter above table
-TR_misc_com_cutboard_01 above small desk
-Light_De_Lantern_01_77 above desk
-Misc_Inkwell on one end


Other Issues:
-Skooma should be hidden well, even in a house like this. Try to move the skooma off of those tables and put it somewhere more secret.
-Always rotate the items you have in your interior. I noticed that many items you placed were not rotated at all.
-The bottom of furn_de_tray_01 is hanging over the shelf. This is bad because the player could see right through it.
-You should sink both TR_com_sack_03_ingredi a bit into the floor.
-TR_bk_AlchemistsGuidetoSkooma is touching nothing but the floor. Either lean it against the crate or the bookend, or put it in-between.
-Rotate the web so all corners touch or go into the wall. Also make sure it doesn't come all the way through something, like it did with the beam below it.
-The Furn_de_practice_mat should not go through the wall.
-Try to add more tapestries.
-Overall, this place could use some more detail.

Fix the above errors and issues and you will be recommended for promotion. It looks like you worked a little too quickly on this, and missed quite a few important errors. Remember that everything needs to be just about perfect for promotion. Good luck on your next file!
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
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Nerdevar
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I'm Not Dead (Yet)!

Post by Nerdevar »

Uhm, so here's a new building I made.

It was originally going to be a Redoran warrior's home, but I changed that to a Hlaalu author/shut-in. That's about all I've got to say, check it out if you've got time.

EDIT: Don't review this one; there's problems I need to fix.


EDIT 2: OK, here it is. This should be alright. The cell name is "Baghatur's House".
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Clean Clean NerdevarTRredwarrior.ESP
Cellname is "Baghatur's House"
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Post by Seneca37 »

Technically, this is a very good interior.

Grid snapping is good, Lighting has been lowered, Northmarker is set, file is finally cleaned.
From IRC, it fits b_09 just fine.

As for rotation, WELL DONE !! Everything was rotated perfectly. However, there were some minor placement issues, and the following list of items need to be fixed.

[spoiler]
Other Issues
TR_w_cook_cleaver (4155, 2716, 12406) Bleed a bit more into meat.
common_shirt_02 (4036, 2718, 12663) Bleed it a bit more into the dresser
bk_lustyargonianmaid (4375, 2155, 12568) Unique - replace

Minor Floater
sc_paper plain (4023, 2162, 12635) Use a dz of 0.01 and lower until you just see the desk bleeding through. Then raise it 0.06 to prevent flicker.
misc_uni_pillow_01 (4357, 2096, 12624) Needs to bleed a bit into the bed
furn_planter_01 (4386, 2093, 12309)
misc_flask_04 (4098, 2725, 12441) Lower so that most or all of the pointy bottom is bleeding.
furn_de_p_shelf_02 (4689, 2652, 12404) Move closer to wall – can bleed into wall a small amount
furn_de_p_shelf_02 (4219, 2430, 12415) Move closer to wall.

Minor Bleeder
text_paper_roll_01 (4047, 2118, 12634) Into desk
com_sack_03_saltrice_10 (4146, 2562, 12337) Too much into wall
[/spoiler]

As for the interior's story telling ability, I really don't get the feeling this person is a shut-in writer, and the place is a bit sparsely furnished. For some reason, when I think shut-in, I think hoarder or messy person. Doesn't need to be, but some clothing and/or more food sacks scattered around might help. As for writer, I envision more inkwells, quills, candles and paper scattered around. Also, a more extensive library would be nice as well as a few tapestries.

Use of some of the furn_c_t_ tapestries would not be out of the questions here. Just don't use the god ones. Stick with the astrological ones (tower, thief, warrior...).

Take a look through these 2 sites – You might find some interesting books here
[url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Books[/url]
[url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Books[/url]

Finally, I have a bunch of picture pdf files, at the following link, of various items. Have a look through these and see if you can find anything else to add to this interior.
[url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24677[/url]
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Post by Nerdevar »

Thank you SO MUCH for the review! I'm glad I got rotating down... and learned that paper lies about its bounding box. Anyway, I decided to narrow down that this guy's a poet/minstrel/songwriter/what-have-you. So I expanded upon his cushion corner by adding some hangover remedies, a set of drums, and some writing equipment to jot down lyrics and beats. I also added writing gear to his eating spot, added some extra writing supplies to a shelf near his desk (because you wouldn't want four inkwells out on your desk at once, would you?), replaced The Lusty Argonian Maid with a different book on his bed, and threw around 10 or so scrap papers on the ground. I also added a cask (with a tray to catch drips) and a couple of tapestries, in addition to fixing the previously-stated issues (I believe I did, at least).
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Clean Clean NerdevarTRredwarrior.ESP
Cellname is Baghatur's House (again)
(10.93 KiB) Downloaded 152 times
The ending of the words is FARGOTH.
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Post by Seneca37 »

Review #2

Nice work. You fixed everything just fine.

Sorry, I did miss a couple of things during the first review.
1) com_basket_01_ingredien should be replaced with a food basket. Ingredients are for Alchemists.
2) Move the bed closer to the wall. It's difficult for the player to walk over to the desk. You should test this out in-game, and if need be, maybe, scale the bed a bit smaller too. Just be sure that the player can easily get to the desk.

There is only 1 additional fix, with the items you added.
The com_sack_01(4660,2364,12316) needs to bleed a bit into the floor.

As for the changes you made, it's a good start. However, I don't really understand the cushion/book/drum area. How would the person living here use this area? It's starting to have a “beatnikâ€Â￾ vibe, but needs a bit of work. Try to make the area look like the person who lives here was just there. Also, there are a bunch of poems on pieces of paper and scrolls. These would help fill out the empty areas.
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