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Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

As I elaborated in this thread, this section is lacking in population. It only has Dondril, a few small hamlets (mostly south of Roa Dyr), some individual shacks, one castle-estate and Almas Thirr, which is at the very edge of the section. That is not a lot.



However, while in the linked thread I suggested waiting on amending the issue, I now think it can be fixed fairly easily and quickly:

Velothi Othrensis currently has 30 interiors, which is more than Ald-ruhn and Sadrith Mora, two Tier II cities. I propose taking half of its interiors and moving them to the former site of Ilvi's manor to make a Tier III. If any further interiors do need to be made, that should not be too much of a problem, as we appear to have a shortage of interiors at the moment, with a bunch of Map 5 stuff being opened up for claiming that isn't exactly high priority.

The main sticking point is NPCing, for which I would need the input of an NPCer. That being said, I'd be willing to tackle it myself if nobody else would be. I think we do not need to worry about quests for the time being; misc quests can be added as they come, perhaps through a showcase process or by other means.

To summarize, I think we can get a Tier III settlement in the middle of Indoril-Thirr in short order, which should sufficiently off-set the lacking population, and would make for a useful link in the future siltstrider travel network.


Last edited by Gnomey on Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:44 am; edited 2 times in total
Post Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:22 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

I support this proposal, provided we can come up with a good concept for its' existence. A small settlement will offset us trimming Roa Dyr down in terms of gameplay, and conforms with Sload's population density plan.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uegi9opc33ds80h/CityDesignSteps.pdf?dl=0

I'd obviously gloss over Adanorcil's wonderful document outlining settlement planning. Since this is not going to be a large settlement, we don't need to go through this thoroughly, but I do think the points raised should be considered regardless when it comes to planning this new settlement.

Also consult the "Commoners" section of Sload's Indoril document, which highlights the character of these particular kinds of settlement spaces. http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=322591#322591

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Post Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Thanks for reminding me about Adanorcil's document. In my personal opinion, the first step is not overly important for smaller settlements. To fill the vast expanse of Morrowind with adequate content for worthwhile gameplay, I think we need to be resigned to the fact that some smaller settlements may have to be created not because they have a clear and necessary conceptual role to fill, but simply to provide the player with a settlement space to interact with in an otherwise empty area. As such, I'm treating the second step as a higher priority than the first one.

I plan to write up a list of interiors I think could be moved from Othrensis, with my current estimate hovering at around 15 interiors. If anyone is concerned about Othrensis getting too small, (though I think 15 interiors are plenty), I just recalled that there was also talk on IRC of removing some of the shop interiors from Almas Thirr, as they made the fortress seem too much like a trade town. Looking only at the houses and shops that would fit Velothi building shells, I frankly think there are enough unnecessary interiors there to supply another Tier III, let alone fill any gaps this might leave in Othrensis.

Edit: my current concept for the town is that it would be a location where Velk nectar is harvested and turned into a liquor for Indoril nobility to enjoy. This would, however, require a new brewery interior. One of the buildings that could be moved over from Othrensis would be the bakery, and the town could be dedicated to Saint Seryn, Patron of Brewers, Bakers and Distillers. (Meaning that in its temple/shrine, there would be a Shrine of St. Meris along with a Shrine of the Tribunal). Though I'm not entirely convinced Velothi towns should have bakeries, this way the interior would at least have a reason for existing.

Another concept would be for the town to be dedicated to Saint Roris, Patron of Furnishers and Caravaners, and move the carpenter interior over.
Post Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:33 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



I have a question about settlement proposals. Are they allowed to be suggested by anyone? Because I just have one or two ideas I'd like to run by for Indoril lands, maybe Dres lands as well (which I imagine is quite a ways off...)
Post Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Theoretically yes, anyone can propose a new settlement. However, the settlement is unlikely to be accepted if it does not conform to the Master Plan as well as any other applicable documents, whether they be regional, (so for House Dres likely the Deshaan), or factional.

In the case of House Dres, those plans have not yet been fleshed out, or simply do not exist, and are not currently a priority, so it is very unlikely for a settlement proposal for House Dres to be accepted, and even if it were to be accepted now there is a large chance it will be discarded when we actually get around to working on House Dres.

In the case of House Indoril, while many documents are incomplete, we do have a few to go off of. As TRV is an active section, there is also a good reason -- in my opinion -- to come to a decision even if those documents aren't as fleshed out as I might like.

In short, if your settlement proposal is for a region and faction with documentation, conforms to that documentation, and addresses as many of the points in Adanorcil's document linked above as possible -- ideally all of them -- then there is a chance it will be accepted. Otherwise, it is rather unlikely.
The bottom line is that we generally don't add settlements whenever we have a good idea for one. A settlement that sounds interesting in and of itself but does not match the larger context of what we are trying to achieve with the region and faction it is part of will generally not be accepted. That is why it is important to read the applicable documents and frame your proposal along those lines.
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Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

If we want a brewery for this village, I suggest retooling the old one from Ilvi's estate and converting it to Velothi. It won't be a clean find & replace kind of job, but having all the clutter to start with will quicken its creation.
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Post Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:48 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

The village (Vul) is in the latest file here. This does require 5-7 new interiors; while I had wanted to rely more on Othrensis interiors, that town mostly uses 2x3 tile interiors with centered doors, which seemed rather dull to me.

I'm actually changing my mind a little about Velothi towns. As the buildings are so compact, a Tier III town with 15 interiors ends up looking like a Tier IV. I personally think that -- as long as the exterior developer doesn't space out the buildings too much -- Velothi towns can be a little larger than other towns of the same tier. This would also make help Indoril lands seem a little more populated. I ended up giving this settlement 20 interiors.





A few ideas I had:

- The town is divided into four sections: the town proper, the temple, the craftsmer area and the outcasts' area. The last area is mostly where personae non grata and outlanders live. It would not necessarily exist in all Velothi towns.

- A lot of Velothi shops (at least in Almas Thirr and Othrensis) have trapdoors leading to a bedroom. By removing the trapdoor, the shops can easily be converted to small craftsmer halls rather than private enterprises. The bedrooms can then be used elsewhere as flats. Shops with otherwise linked bedrooms -- which at least in Othrensis were in the minority -- can be outlander shops.

- I thought I'd give Vul a cornerclub and local tong. (Flavour dialogue only, though I can think of one or two quests that could involve them). The Syvvit Tong, or Swindler's Guild, monitors dealings with outlanders, effectively meaning that they monopolize trade with outlanders. As Vul is relatively close to Old Ebonheart and Almas Thirr it gets more outlanders than most Velothi towns.
While it's not exactly outlander-friendly, the authorities (Ilvi and the Temple) disapprove of the tong because it undermines the Indoril class structure. (The tong members get money from outlanders, with which they buy nicer stuff, often from outlanders. As Velothi villagers generally don't have much in the way of capitalism, relying mostly on the barter system, this makes the tong members a good deal better off than their neighbours, disrupting Vul's social structure). Ilvi might also (wrongly) suspect it of having ties to House Hlaalu.

Interiors:
1. Temple (Othrensis Temple? New int?) - should have a shrine to St. Seryn. There would be some tension between the local clergy and the outside vendors.
2. Hetman (Ra'Rashna's House; probably remove skooma and such).
3. Inn (roerich's showcase) the proprietor is a member of the Syvvit Tong (ST), but the tong does not hang out here; the inn is mostly used by travellers and such.
4. Apothecary (The Garden of St. Meris) the proprietor gathers ingredients and makes potions for the temple and townspeople; offers services.
5. House (Seran Draylis' House); member of the ST and peddlar (II). Also harvests Velk nectar for brewery.
6. Tradehouse (new int); warehouse and general merchant.
7. Flat (Farnel: Clothier basement); member of the ST and peddlar (IV).
8. Flat (Harana Vandero: Baker basement); home of caravaner (VI).
9. Flat (Drathas Vale: Carpenter basement); member of the ST, hunter; food vendor (I). Helps out with harvesting Velk nectar.
10. Cornerclub (new int); Syvvit Tong clubhouse.
11. Barracks (new int, 3x4); all Indoril guards in the TRV are technically garrisoned at Roa Dyr. This building just provides shelter and beds for guards posted in or around Vul.
12. House (new int, 2x3); member of the ST and scout; often acts as guide for outlanders, and probably also helps with gathering Velk nectar.
13. Bakery (Harana Vandero: Baker; window needs to be removed, and it should probably get an oven in its place).
14. Brewery (reuse as much of Ilvi Manor, Brewery as possible); Velk nectar is fermented here to make a beverage for the Indoril.
15. House (new int, 2x3); brewer
16. House (Vineril Dralan's House); baker
17. House (Viran Meran's House); peddlar (V), not a ST member.
18. House (Delasi Llothin's House); head brewer.
19. House (Vellerin Dreth's House); outlander wizard vendor (III) providing a variety of services.
20. Outlander smith (Almas Thirr, Adosl Drinith: Smith; add smokestack to interior.)

To do:
-The town still needs a lot of cluttering, especially containers.
-I'd be willing to make the smaller adjustments to the interiors myself; in my opinion only the interiors in bold need to become claims.
Post Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

You've outdone yourself, Gnomey. What a lovely little village.

For the Temple, I think we can comfortably move the one from Roa Dyr here instead of Dondril. Giving two villages that are so close together full-blown temples would probably be overkill.

I like your concept for the Syvvit Tong. It makes sense for outlander influence to seep into Indoril areas so close to Old Ebonheart, and you've given them an identity that clearly sets them apart from the outlander-hating Camonna Tong.

I forget, do we have a velk nectar item yet?

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Post Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
sasquatch2o
Developer
15 Jul 2014



You guys think the mod needs more towns more buildings more interiors, but it doesn't. This won't necessarily improve the mod or make it more interesting because there are buildings here. Also may not be recognizing that for every 60 seconds you spend placing a building someone else has to spend 6+ hours on the interior. Even with a great interior the building is still boring because it lacks NPC of depth and quests. If the town is properly finished you have probably added another three hundred hours of development to a completed area for a redundant town in an area that would have been fine had it remained wilderness. That time could be better spent expanding new areas and fleshing out one of many empty old ones.
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Opiece
Member
17 Jul 2014

Location: Omelette du fromage

Your plan is great, Gnomey Smile I know my opinion isn't that important, but it looks really nice.

sasquatch2o wrote:
You guys think the mod needs more towns more buildings more interiors, but it doesn't. This won't necessarily improve the mod or make it more interesting because there are buildings here. Also may not be recognizing that for every 60 seconds you spend placing a building someone else has to spend 6+ hours on the interior. Even with a great interior the building is still boring because it lacks NPC of depth and quests. If the town is properly finished you have probably added another three hundred hours of development to a completed area for a redundant town in an area that would have been fine had it remained wilderness. That time could be better spent expanding new areas and fleshing out one of many empty old ones.


Actually yes, it needs more towns, or at least bigger settlements in some places. The reason is rather simple really: credibility. Morrowind is supposed to be much more populated than Vvardenfell, the latter being a volcano which was just recently opened to colonisation. Moreover, Indoril lands are supposed to be one of the most populated parts of Morrowind, which means there should be a lot more people than on Vvardenfell.
Also, I feel there's a lack of Velothi towns, so adding some more would be great IMO.

Finally, I personally prefer towns to wilderness (though that's subjective). Wilderness can be cool and feature some awesome sceneries, but numerous lively towns with clear cultures and backgrounds as well as a few quests are all I ask for in a RPG.


Last edited by Opiece on Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
Post Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I don't think those are significant concerns, sasquatch:

Most of the interiors already exist, and the few adjustments required for them would probably take me about ten minutes or maybe an hour if I dawdled at it. If the temple interior from Roa Dyr is used, (and I think that that is indeed a good idea), there are only six interiors requiring major work.
One of them, the brewery, could be done within a few hours, probably; while it is large, if the developer just moves the clutter over from the old Ilvi brewery as suggested that will cut down on most of the work. I'm not even sure if it needs to be made into a claim, really; I could probably do it myself within a day.

Of the five remaining interiors, two are single-room 2x3 tile affairs, which are generally done pretty quickly. That just leaves the barracks (on second glance, in_velothismall_room_09 would be perfect for this one, so a 3x3 shell), the tradehouse (in_v_s_domeroom_01; a 4x5 shell) and the council club. (Probably ~13-18 tiles total). As an interior modder, that's really not a lot.

Which is all ignoring the fact that we actually have a shortage of interiors now anyway, the currently available interiors being for places that have not yet been properly planned out. I probably did not need to hold back with adding new interiors as much as I did.

As for dialogue, setting aside that this is a minor town mostly there to provide services to the player for improved gameplay, and that we could get away with making most of the inhabitants fairly generic; as someone who has written dialogue for Morrowind in the past, even if not for TR, I personally think that between characterizing the villagers to fit our concept for Velothi culture and the ideas I presented above there is a solid enough basis to work off of. I think the implementation should be able to go fairly quickly.
From my experience, most of the time spent NPCing is spent in trying to characterize the NPCs, which I have already partly done, though naturally whoever NPCs this can go a different route. However, it might be good to hear the opinion of NPCers for this one; though I did ask for it when proposing this settlement and got no complaints.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would be willing to tackle this job myself if nobody else is. (I have been wanting to get into NPCing eventually).

Finally, the matter of quests. The only quests Vul would really need would be miscellaneous quests. It is my personal opinion that TR should not see churning out miscellaneous quests as a high priority, and rather rely on quest showcases and people who have ideas they would really want included to fill in the blanks. While Vul might be fairly boring until miscellaneous quests are added, good dialogue should mitigate that issue somewhat.

I think your 300+ hour estimate is wildly over the actual amount of time this would take.

I also personally think that smallish settlements are usually worth the effort required, as long as they are based off of a solid concept or at least look halfway interesting; especially the latter, as I think settlement screenshots tend to do a little better than wilderness screenshots at generating interest in TR.
And then there are all of the points Opiece pointed out.



As for Velk nectar, we do have a Velk Nectar Sac ingredient which the Velk drop, but that appears to be it. We still need the actual beverage and maybe an extracted nectar ingredient, but I did just realize that the TR_furn_soup_pot texture could pass as Velk nectar, which could be useful.
Post Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I would actually very much like to NPC Vul. I've even started jotting down a few lines of dialogue for it based on Gnomey's description already. His thorough concept has made coming up with npcs and dialogue for the village a much simpler task, for sure.

For quests, Vul should have one that heavily involves the Syvvit Tong. Maybe we can set up a trade dispute between them and an outlander trader who thinks they swindled him. Perhaps the local hetman, guards and priests at the Temple, who would normally mediate any dispute between villagers, refuse to get involved out of contempt for foreigners.

I'm fine with having you handle the interior changes, Gnomey, if you feel up to it.

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Post Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:34 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Terrifying Daedric Foe
Developer
26 Aug 2010

Location: England

sasquatch2o wrote:
That time could be better spent expanding new areas and fleshing out one of many empty old ones.

This is one of the empty old areas. The reason this town was proposed is because this area was too empty and needed more settlements to get across the image of Indoril and the Mainland we want to portray.

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Post Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

I like the overall design, but one look at the image demonstrates the inherent weakness of the Velothi set, when used for compact urban environment: that is that the sloped walls of the velothi buildings make it very difficult for one building to adjoin the next, without there always being some small crank.

These cranks look truly awkward IMO. No person in his right mind would build houses 17-20 leaving but a tiny space between them and the temple, which would soon be filled with rubbish, fallen leafs and pests. Either there should be a street or some other reasonably accessible free space, or there is no reason for the buildings not to neighbour completely. The same goes for building 15-16.

It would be a waste of a precious town space at least. (Speaking of the waste of space, there is usually no need to have buildings in such a confine space, if there is no limitation of the space to build upon. Usually medieval towns were so crooked, becuase they were confined behind the town walls, but other geographic features would give this settlement to be more compact as well).

On the other hand where the buildings bleed into one another, as is the case of 7,8,13,14 and 9-12 compound, or are connected via bridges aka 1-3, that is where the set works at its best.

Maybe this concept could be amended with a usage of walls and other velothi meshes, or simply by bleeding the houses more, but as it is right now it looks quite moddy.

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Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I'd like to hear more opinions about the use of the tileset before I do anything; I personally don't have a problem with those gaps, but would be willing to try and fill them. I'm just a little worried that filling them would make the settlement look more clunky rather than less.

Edit: as a matter of curiosity, Theo, did you check the village in-game, or are you just judging from the screenshots?

Yeti wrote:
I would actually very much like to NPC Vul. I've even started jotting down a few lines of dialogue for it based on Gnomey's description already.


Excellent. It's probably about time I make a thread in which I can dump all of my own quest ideas.
Post Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I don't mind the gaps either, personally. Bleeding house together wouldn't make it look any less moddy, EDIT: but maybe I'd have to see an example to understand what you mean, Theo.
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Post Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theo
Developer Emeritus
16 Dec 2004

Location: PRAGUE

@Yeti: I do particularly mean this...

@Gnomey: I did check the village in CS, I don't think that makes such a difference.

Don't take me wrong, I like some parts of Vul I mentioned very much. It is mainly in contrast to them that these gaps stand out even more and undermine Gnomey's attempt to create a compact settlement.

I know Behtesda's house models were not particularly designed to snap together very well, but with the exception of Balmora there were few attempts on mainland to create some actual town.

Speaking of Balmora, there are few cases in Balmora where one house neighbours other in an attempt to create some street line and there is still an obvious gap, but due to the fact that Hlaalu buildings have more or less straight walls and also because the whole town is on rectangular grid and the houses are not in funny angles (I do not suggest we should follow this precedent), the gaps are at least not that pronounced as here.



Vul1.png
 Description:
Why is this space here? What purpose does it serve?

Download
 Filename:  Vul1.png
 Filesize:  1.8 MB
 Downloaded:  385 Time(s)


Vul2.png
 Description:
Not a built-up area, but obviously not a street either. Owner of one of the houses could have had a space for two more beds in his house.

Download
 Filename:  Vul2.png
 Filesize:  1.31 MB
 Downloaded:  380 Time(s)


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Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Here are my changes to Vul from the previous file; I had never gotten around to uploading pics:

Post Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:06 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Here is some generic dialogue I was inspired to write a month or two ago.

Greetings

You are in Vul. If you come to barter, seek the Syvvit Tong.

Do you plan to stay in Vul for long, outlander? Our town has little to offer your kind.

Another outlander visits Vul. You ought to stick to your own kind, if you ask me.

Vul

The mer who live here are simple folk – mostly laborers, craftsmer and peddlers. We harvest and brew nectar from Velk, both tamed and wild, and keep to ourselves. A few outlanders live in Vul, but only the Syvvit Tong consorts with them.

Syvvit Tong

You want to know about the local tong? They like to act friendly with your kind, bartering with every shabby foreigner who wanders into town. Imperial gold dims their senses.

Services

Most villagers get by bartering for food and goods around here, but we also have a few craftsmer halls and tradehouses. ___ runs an inn where passerby can stop to rest. We also have a cornerclub, though its mainly a gathering spot for the Syvvit Tong these days. ____ the apothecary makes potions for the temple and townspeople, but sells his extra stock to travelers. Our general merchant, _____, and our baker, ___ are both respectable. You can also barter with Syvvit Tong peddlers and the outlander shopkeepers.

Someone in Particular

___ is the village hetman – a strict but sensible mer. He is one of the few people in Vul who has met our lord, Serjo Indoril Draler Ilvi, in person. ____ tends to our town’s spiritual needs at the Temple.

Latest Rumors

Just the other day, __ over at the Temple delivered a sermon against mingling with outlanders. That will sure put the Syvvit Tong in an awkward bind.

___ will have to do something about that daughter of his soon. All these visiting outlanders have put funny ideas in her head.

Little Advice

Don’t let their passive behavior fool you – Velks can put up a decent struggle when they’re spooked. Of course, the nectar in their glands makes up for the trouble handling them.

Little Secret

In the old days we could go years without seeing a foreigner in Vul. Now you wander into our town on a whim. Times change, I supposed, but that doesn't mean everyone has to like it.

An Imperial hedge-wizard lives in Vul. He runs a wizard shop in the outskirts. Most think his magic is profane – not fit for decent folk to meddle with.


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Post Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:39 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I forgot to reply to your post, Yeti.

Vul

A hamlet to the west of Vul might be responsible for harvesting Velk nectar from tame Velks, though some NPCs in Vul might still harvest from wild Velks.

Services

A very minor nitpick; technically there is only one craftmer's hall in Vul, of which the brewery and bakery are both part, and one tradehouse. 'Passerby' should also be 'passersby'.
Post Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:34 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Some NPCing notes to go along with the new file:

As Adosl Drinith, the (formerly Almas Thirr) smith already exists as an NPC, (she doesn't have any unique dialogue), and the wizard's house interior has a "Diary of Narvs Sodryth", I figure both of these merchants might as well stay Dunmer. That being said, I think they should still be outlanders. Narvs Sodryth might be an ex-Mages Guild member from abroad who for whatever reason decided to cut ties with the guild by setting up shop in Indoril territory, (the reason doesn't need to be explored, but should probably not be tampering in dark arts or anything clichéd; maybe he wanted to simply pursue his studies undisturbed by guild bureaucracy?), while Adosl Drinith might have simply wanted to live among her countryfolk.
Due to his study of magic, or more to the point his western approach to magic, Narvs Sodryth is distrusted by the townsfolk. While not having been accepted into the fold, Adosl Drinith might have found greater acceptance, and could perhaps provide the player with a fairly neutral perspective of the town and its goings-on.
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Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Yes, I agree. Make them Dunmer, but outlanders. Makes more sense for outander Dunmer to live in a community like Vul where they at least have a better chance to fit in than Imperials and other races.
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Post Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:51 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I have several suggestions as far as Vhul's services are concerned.

Here's a messy map of Vhul:



The pairs of dots connected by lines represent which homes I think should be linked to which pedlars. I have yet to add most of the wares to the stalls that the pedlars would actually sell. I switched two around from my original suggestion to reflect the quests here. (The pedlar in the temple grounds shouldn't be the same as the one filching Velk brew).

By order of interiors, I think the services should be:

1. general Temple fare, mostly for Temple members. Probably have as much barter gold as typical for temple service providers.
3. a publican. Should have a normal amount of barter gold.
4. an apothecary. Should have very little or no barter gold; not strictly a merchant.
5. a general merchant? Can have a decent amount of gold, though probably still low compared to most merchants.
6. tradesmer. Can have a decent but low amount of gold, but should have tons of wares available.
7. a general merchant? Can have a decent amount of gold, though probably still low compared to most merchants.
8. the caravaner.
9. a hunter; effectively an alchemist, but should only really have meat for sale. Mostly serves tourists, and should have gold, but probably doesn't need much.
10. a publican. Can have the normal amount of gold. Just realized the publican needs a home, too. 16 might work; the publican could be the spouse of the baker.
13. sells bread and ingredients used to make bread. Should have very little or no barter gold; not strictly a merchant.
17. a general merchant? Should have lousy wares for sale and very little gold. Not a member of the ST.
19. a mage. I personally think he should offer proper goods rather than just spells and spell-making. As far as I'm concerned he can be a general merchant with only magical wares on offer. Can have a normal amount of gold.
20. a smith. Can have a normal amount of gold.
Post Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:45 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Here's a complete rough draft for Vhul's dialogue. Is anyone interested in looking it over for editing?


Vhul Dialogue.pdf
 Description:
First Draft

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 Filename:  Vhul Dialogue.pdf
 Filesize:  259.64 KB
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Post Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Theminimanx
Lead Developer
26 Jan 2014

Location: GMT +1

I can't comment much on the lore, but I took a quick look at the spelling and grammar:


craftmer craftsmer - throughout the document.
...Ivorna Telsn oversees the later latter.
...an inn where passerby passersby can...
"mostly only Syvvit Tong" is a bit awkwardly phrased. "..., though these these days the patrons are almost exclusively Syvvit Tong members." might be better. I don't know if that would still fit the word limit though.
Is the corner club supposed to belong to the Syvvit Tong, or just mostly occupied by them? "Services" and "Specific Place" say different things.
"Typical for you foreigners - slandering honest mer for your own gain." This might not be appropriate if the NPC has a high disposition.
I might be wrong, but I don't think people quoted the Sermons in Vanilla. I don't see a good reason to change that, especially not for generic NPC's.
"It would take a shocking glut of arrogance to taste the drink of the nobility." Should this line be changed if the player is an Indoril noble?
"The peddling peddler" "...his wayward ways." Perhaps replace peddling with vending, and wayward with undisciplined?
"Or any at all..." It's not immediately obvious what 'any' is referring to. I initially thought he meant you won't find a finer smith anywhere. Maybe: "Or any other smith..." though I'm not a fan of that phrasing either.
I an am %Name, %Class...


You seem to be making less spelling mistakes as you go on. Not sure if that's you getting better at writing, or me getting worse at editing.

P.S. Yay! My nitpicking is useful for once v

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:39 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Terrifying Daedric Foe
Developer
26 Aug 2010

Location: England

I believe the Morrowind convention is to use two small hyphens "--" rather than one big hyphen "—" but that's probably Word auto-correcting.

"Aren’t I right, sera?" - this doesn't sound correct to me. Perhaps change to "Wouldn't you say so, sera?" or "Wouldn't you agree, sera?"

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:46 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Greeting wrote:
You’ve arrived in Vhul — one of the local area’s larger villages. Looking for someone in particular?


Incredibly nitpicky, but this one might sound odd in some situations. (eg. if the player sleeps at the inn and then talks to a local).

Theminimanx is right with 'craftsmer', though I've probably written it craftmer myself quite often, and writing it so isn't completely wrong either. I'd add that, for Vhul, I'd generally write craftsmer halls, as there is both a bakers' hall and a brewers' hall.

The Syvvit Tong members might be a little too upfront about taking advantage of outlanders, considering they're talking to one, but that's not a bad direction to go with them.

'Muth-honcho' might sound a little odd. I'd consider just going with 'hetman' instead of a fancy title; he's Velothi, not an Indoril.

'He defiles the sanctity of the Temple with his wayward ways.' I'd say you could just leave out 'wayward' altogether; the meaning is clear enough without it. As far as the priest's lines are concerned, I'm not sure if temples are really viewed as holy ground that can be defiled by Dunmer. At the lower levels, the Temple seems pretty down-to-earth. The lines work as they are, but the priest could just as well say 'he's bringing a lot of outlander traffic to the temple and it's distracting the priests'.

As to whether the corner club is supposed to have been Syvvit Tong from the start or whether they basically took it over, I think it works either way.

I really like what you have so far, especially some of the unique dialogue. It's nice to see this come along. Smile
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:59 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Updated dialogue.


Vhul Dialogue 2.0.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Vhul Dialogue 2.0.pdf
 Filesize:  206.62 KB
 Downloaded:  188 Time(s)


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Post Wed May 27, 2015 10:29 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Two words were missing in your dialogue:
someone in particular wrote:
The priest Lloryno Norom tends to our spiritual and Marayn Voldal runs the inn for all the merchants who pass through.
"[...] our spiritual needs [...]", I assume.
Adosl Drinith wrote:
You won’t another smith in Vhul.
"You won't find another smith in Vhul."

Otherwise, it looks great! Excellent work on this.
Post Thu May 28, 2015 9:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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