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gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

I expect this to be a little more controversial than my other bit about regular creatures, because this is far more subjective.

Vanilla Morrowind has eight varieties of daedra. The Atronachs, Scamps and Clannfears are ‘neutral’ creatures, while the others each serve a particular daedric prince.

Hunger = Boethiah

Winged Twilight = Azura

Golden Saint = Sheogorath

Ogrim = Malacath

Dremora = Mehrunes Dagon

It’s immediately obvious that these are most of the significant daedric princes in Dunmeri cosmology. All that are missing are Mephala and Molag Bal’s agents. TR has the Spider Daedra for Mephala. There’s no reason we can’t create more neutral daedra creatures, or more that are aligned with these princes. In common with the rest of TR’s approach to daedric princes in Morrowind I’d avoid muddying the waters by introducing the servants of any ‘foreign’ princes.

Now for the tricky bit: what is the difference between a daedric creature and a regular, Mundus-native monster? For me it boils down to this: the daedra are designed and made by the godlike inhabitants of alien dimensions. The common sense rules that should apply to normal fauna don’t apply to them. In a world where ‘normal’ creatures include things like Minotaurs, Cliff Racers and Goblins this requires quite a bit of imagination.

Probably my favourite monster in all of vanilla Morrowind is the Golden Saint. What the hell is it? It has a biological heart but it looks like a metal statue. Is it wearing armour, or is that part of its body? It seems like a parody of a beautiful woman, but it’s a living creature and not an automaton like the Dwemer make. Shivering Isles kind of ruined this by making them just some yellow skinned assholes. We already had the Altmer for that.

In my view a good daedric creature should look fundamentally unnatural, because it is. That can mean giving it a metal face, or wooden limbs, or covering its skin in writing. I don’t think Bethesda did a great job here (which of these is native to another universe: Orcs or Ogrims?) but we can do better. The proposed Quagmire denizens for the Hammerfell project were perfect, and if we make more daedra for TR (we should at least create Molag Bal’s servants), then we need to follow the high standards we set for ourselves with Hammerfell.

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Post Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Molag Bal's servants are daedroths, which are already in the game. Doesn't mean we can't make more, of course.
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Post Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Forgot about Hermaeus Mora

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Lurker
Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:48 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Didn't forget (although I still haven't played Dragonborn). Solstheim is a whole different kettle of fish from Morrowind- Hermaeus Mora doesn't really have a presence in the latter.
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Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:57 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



But he should on the mainland, no...?
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Dormichigan64
Developer
26 Dec 2013

Location: Stop trying to see where I live, you creepy bastard! (Kingston, Ontario)

I do think I recall Hermy having some kind of a connection. At least he's BFF with Mephala if I'm not mistaken. Isn't Hircine kind of related to Morrowind in a way as well?
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Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:12 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Traditional Dunmer religion involves the Three Good Daedra (Boethiah, Azura, Mephala) and the Four Corners of the House of Troubles (Sheogorath, Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal and Malacath). That's part and parcel of their culture. The other nine princes and the Aedra are alien to this society.

What this hopefully means is that by focusing on these guys we'll get to explore each of them in a bit more depth than usual. We'll also avoid the very gamey conceit of having one shrine for each of the sixteen princes per province (see Oblivion and Skyrim).

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Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:54 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



ok i call bullshit. you're trying to tell me that there wouldn't be at LEAST smaller sects of all types of daedric worship out in the wilds of morrowind? you're doing the exact opposite of what you should be wanting to do, you're strangling the possibilities by narrowing it down too much. im not saying we should spend forever on the subject, but why not have a few new daedra going to Mora, and maybe a shrine or two out in the middle of nowhere with hermits and the dead, searching for knowledge to the point of near-senility?
Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:53 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Varieties_of_Faith...

Minority religious interests may exist, but i'd rather we expended our efforts exploring the facets of the religions that define the province: The Tribunal Temple, the Imperial Cult, and the Good & Bad Daedra. Otherwise we may as well throw in the Dragon Cult, Tall Papa or anything else that has novelty value.

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Last edited by gro-Dhal on Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ashstaar
Developer
02 Jun 2005



gro-Dahl is correct about the Dunmer and the Daedra. However, I believe the other Daedra lords should be represented in some fashion. It seems to me that Bethesda had plans to implement more quests for them but did not for whatever reason. The Mask of Clavicus Vile is in the game in the possession of some seemingly random npc. Namira's ring is also present but not implemented, and what about the mystery Queen of Bats axe? I don't think shrines or cult locations necessarily need to exist, but It makes sense to me that there should still be quests. The Daedra love to meddle with the mortals and mortals are seeking power from the Daedra, etc. They also feature in all the other Elder Scrolls games. However, regarding Daedra creatures (which this thread was originally about?) I think there could still be more. Here are some possibilities.


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Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Wow, those look great! What would you call the daedra to the left of the Xivilai?
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Dormichigan64
Developer
26 Dec 2013

Location: Stop trying to see where I live, you creepy bastard! (Kingston, Ontario)

I'm pretty sure that's this.
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Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Telvayn
Member
28 Jan 2014



gro-Dhal wrote:
Vanilla Morrowind has eight varieties of daedra. The Atronachs, Scamps and Clannfears are ‘neutral’ creatures, while the others each serve a particular daedric prince.

Both Scamps and Clannfears are specifically said to be servants of Dagon.
Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:34 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



also it might not be too hard to procure daedric shrine statues as a resource from the tes renewal people....

in regards to the artifacts like the masque of cv, there's a fine line morrowind has between quests that reward you, and just random things you stumble upon. i personally like the fact that the masque is just on a random npc in some random dwemer tower. no indication that it's there, no real rhyme or reason for it to be there, and it's a nice surprise to just come upon it. there should be a good balance between quests pointing you in/near the direction of such things, and naturally coming across them. (:

just to keep in mind, i suppose.
Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:41 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Ashstaar wrote:
gro-Dahl is correct about the Dunmer and the Daedra. However, I believe the other Daedra lords should be represented in some fashion. It seems to me that Bethesda had plans to implement more quests for them but did not for whatever reason. The Mask of Clavicus Vile is in the game in the possession of some seemingly random npc. Namira's ring is also present but not implemented, and what about the mystery Queen of Bats axe? I don't think shrines or cult locations necessarily need to exist, but It makes sense to me that there should still be quests. The Daedra love to meddle with the mortals and mortals are seeking power from the Daedra, etc. They also feature in all the other Elder Scrolls games. However, regarding Daedra creatures (which this thread was originally about?) I think there could still be more. Here are some possibilities.


I particularly like snakey and the Xivilai, although with the latter don't be afraid to weird it up a bit more. We're not constrained by the art decisions of later games.

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Post Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Biboran
Member
26 Sep 2014

Location: Russia

For variety you can add subtypes.
Like Oblivion had Stunted Scamp.

Monstrous Scamp - has a red shade of a skin, can throw fireballs. Height above normal scamp.

Horrible Clannfear - brown, with red eyes, a more aggressive subtype. Run fast, can attack in a jump. Carapace with large claws growths.

Dark Seducers - Mazken. Not necessary to explain who she is.

And so on.
Post Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:29 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Fiore1300
Member
21 Oct 2009



I'm posting this as a potential resource for ideas. I wrote it up a while back for the official forums and TIL.

Also, where does TR's Vermai fall on this scale? Are they "neutral" because they're bestial, or one of Dagon's?

As for resources, what about some of Antares' Creatures? They're typically classical fantasy creatures, but some could pass as daedra and I think most if not all are free and well-made resources.

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Dormichigan64
Developer
26 Dec 2013

Location: Stop trying to see where I live, you creepy bastard! (Kingston, Ontario)

I have an idea for a daedra: a buff humanoid clad in all silver, kind of like the Aurorons except more graceful. Used as guards by Azura in her city of silver, sometimes seen around her shrines. They have the power to blind their enemies for a short while, and are strongly resistant to magic. They always carry a two handed weapon (preferably in one hand).

What do you think?

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Post Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
dady977
Member
16 Sep 2014

Location: Center Of The Ring

Dormichigan64 wrote:
I have an idea for a daedra: a buff humanoid clad in all silver, kind of like the Aurorons except more graceful. Used as guards by Azura in her city of silver, sometimes seen around her shrines. They have the power to blind their enemies for a short while, and are strongly resistant to magic. They always carry a two handed weapon (preferably in one hand).

What do you think?


This sounds very Azura-like, I bet this is something Azura would do, especially being graceful and making them look unique, and you suggested they would be silver, that is something unique and graceful, I prefer they would be in shiny silver, considering Azura is the goddess of dusk and dawn
I would love to see them like the Golden Saints, you know, like the armor is PART of their body, not on their body like a regular armor, to make them look infused in silver
Post Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:03 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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