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10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Asset: A drinking set for Velk nectar. Lore discussion goes in the Velk Nectar Thread, discussion about the visual design goes in this thread.

Note that as per our new rules, anyone who has concept art, ideas, or wants to try their hand at modeling some of this is welcome!

Velk Brew is a drink enjoyed exclusively by the Indoril, and the upper-class Indoril in particular.

The brew is served in either religious or noble-gathering situations, and for this there will be one set created. The set of models will include:

One small cup
One large fancy cup
One "powder" jar
One "powder" spoon
One stirrer
One urn
One market jug

Since this is Indoril, the number of sides will be Religiously Significant.

There will be some fancy preparation involving the urn, some additive, and stirring; then the drink is served into a big pass-around cup or a set of individual cups, depending.

Unused concepts can be used to make other upper, middle, or lower class communal drinking sets for whatever booze or tea.

Sketches and rough ideas:

Initial sketch
Rough sketches
Relative sizes sketch

Technical Sketch
Color Technical Sketches

Velk set displayed on table (sketch)
Velk set displayed on table (painting)


Last edited by 10Kaziem on Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
Post Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:23 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Personally, as far as scale is concerned, I think the relative scale here is already very good. I'd suggest making the small cup the height of the House Dagoth Cup (but it would be narrower) and adjusting the scale from there. The powder jar may need to be made a little larger, but I'm not sure on that point. The samovar(s) would be roughly the size of calcinators; perhaps a little larger. In gameplay terms, the samovars should probably be very high quality calcinators as well. (Probably around grandmaster level but inordinately heavy and expenseive?)

As far as visuals are concerned, I think the ornamentation should generally be achieved through textures rather than the model, (as is the case with the culdems), as I personally like the clean aesthetics of the objects here.

I've uploaded a quick compilation of what I see as the approved concepts so far:



As far as I'm concerned, all four stirrers could be included for variety; if we go with a single stirrer I think it should be the one in the samovar picture. As discussed in your concept thread, we could also consider additional samovar models for further variety.

Going through the concepts:
I like the jug as-is, though the model may require additional bevels around its circumference to look smooth (but not round). That's rather hard to judge without the texture, as good textures tend to blur the sharp lines of models.
I like the cup as-is.
As discussed, I like all four stirrer variants and the powder spoon, though I find the textures harder to judge.
I like the powder jar as-is; I'm not sure how many sides it should have or if it should be circular, though. It may be too small for six sides to look good, but I'd consider trying to widen it to make six sides work. Five sides work as well.
The samovar and large cup are a little harder to judge, as they lack a clean side-view concept like the other objects. I generally like their appearance, but will have more to say on them later.
Post Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:25 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Some updates:

(spoiler'd for big images)





Texture (rough placeholder):



Finally made a UV map work right! Hooray!



And, also, a more unifying concept, which is to scale and shows number of sides. Big cup concept in progress.



Last edited by 10Kaziem on Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:14 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I've been putting some thought into how Velk brew might be prepared, and whether the set is complete as-is. Here's what I came up with:

Basically, there are two ways the drink can be served: the communal and the solitary. Each employs a kettle (new model) and a large serving cup (design will need to be modified).

The samovar has two compartments: the inner and the outer. The outer simply contains water, and the inner cylindrical compartment contains hot lumps of coal (or firesalts or something if we want to get fancy). A kettle containing the Velk brew and covered by the communal cup is placed over the inner compartment. The coals heat both the water and the Velk brew. The vapours of the Velk brew are trapped in the lower compartment of the communal cup. (This part of the preparation is the same for both methods of consumption, and is shown in the first two panels in each case).

For solitary consumption, (preparation shown in the upper half of the image), the kettle is then removed from over the inner compartment and the communal cup is placed in its stead, (so that the vapour continues to be heated and doesn't go to waste), and a bit of the Velk brew residue is heaped into a small cup. The remaining residue is carefully set aside for later consumption. (So we need a fancy container for Velk brew residue).
A specific amount of water from the samovar is then poured into the cup through a special perforated spoon on which some special water-soluble crystals or lumps of powder of some sort have been placed. (The contents of the powder jar). A pinch of ancestor ashes is then sprinkled into the drink and the drink is stirred thoroughly before consumption.
As this drink uses the residue, it is very strong. The drinker doesn't completely go into a trance or anything, but is still strictly not to be disturbed, other than, naturally, by ancestor spirits, who begin their communion with their descendant.

For communal consumption, (preparation shown in the lower half of the image), after the kettle is removed from over the samovar and the residue is set aside, water is poured by the same method into the top compartment of the communal cup. A special spherical valve separates the upper and lower compartments; it is hollow with a hole on one side. The hole is generally left facing downwards, so that it fills with vapour.
Once the proper amount of water has been poured into the upper compartment, the valve is turned so that the hole faces upwards, allowing the vapour trapped inside to mix with the hot water. The ancestor ashes are then sprinkled in, the drink is stirred thoroughly, and then is passed around until it is completely consumed. The valve is then turned again until it faces downwards, so that more vapour fills it, and water is again poured into the upper compartment.
The whole process is repeated a very specific amount of times, how many depending on very specific circumstances only the Indoril are really able to keep track of.
The communal drink is very diluted, and as such a lot of it can be consumed in one sitting without risk of impeding conversation.

An exception to the above arises if a group of Indoril have trouble reaching a decision. Then the small cups come out and they drink the according stronger preparation so that they can commune with their ancestor spirits as a group. Even in this case, though, they are not to be disturbed by outsiders for any reason.

The samovar would often but not always be set on the floor, on a fancy carpet and surrounded by fancy cushions on which the Indoril would sit. Whoever does the basic preparations stands while doing the preparations. (I'd say an Altmer/Dunmer slave operates the samovar and quickly withdraws -- if the stronger preparation is used from the room, otherwise to the edge of the room -- once the basic preparations are done. The host takes it from there, setting aside the residue and preparing the specific drink or drinks).

So if we go with the above, the list of models becomes as follows:

-at least one samovar model. This functions as a calcinator. This may need further design.
-one kettle (perhaps more like a tureen in appearance). This will be a misc object. This needs to be designed.
-one large cup, with an upper and lower compartment and valve in between. The valve would naturally not be functional; the hole (perhaps just a texture) should face downwards. This will be a misc object. This needs further design.
-one small cup. Maybe this should have a flare at the top so that it resembles an absinthe cup? Otherwise I consider its design done. This will be a misc object. This may need further design.
-the fairly simple market jug, containing unprepared Velk brew. This functions as a potion, possibly with undesirable negative effects. This has been designed, though the model may need further tweaking.
-a fancier jug containing Velk brew residue. This functions as a stronger potion without undesirable negative effects. This needs to be designed.
-a powder jar. This functions as an ingredient? Misc object? Container? This has been designed. (Aside from the number of sides, still not sure on that, but it might be easier to judge as a model. I'd try six sides to start with).
-one powder spoon/stirrer; I think this should just be a merge of the powder spoon (one end) and the stirrer (the other end). It should be rather long. This needs further design.
-at least one perforated spoon. This will be a misc object. This needs to be designed.

To round off, more of my brilliantly illustrated and annotated ideas:



The images on the right require further elaboration. They're three versions of the market jar's outer circumference. The sides, in black, represent the model edges while the panels, indicated by the grey lines, indicate the number of panels in the texture; whether there should be four equally wide panels or alternating wider and narrower panels. I'd actually consider not having distinct panels at all and just having a wraparound texture like the culdems.

Edit: my suggestions ended up being a rather larger departure from what came before than I'd expected, but I suppose it's good I brought this up now rather than later. There are quite a lot of objects in the set, but I think it's still just within acceptable bounds. I have considered a special raised platter or small bowl for the ancestor ashes, but am not sure whether that would be necessary.
Post Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:05 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Some potential inspiration:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/245095027/
https://www.etsy.com/listing/226293532/
https://www.etsy.com/listing/226298462
http://visitside.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Turkish-coffee.png
http://www.turkishcoffee.us/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/turkish-coffee-pots.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/BOSPHORUS-Pieces-Turkish-Serving-Saucers/dp/B00O16ZRRU/
http://www.amazon.com/CopperBull-THICKEST-Hammered-Turkish-Stovetop/dp/B00LRIR6A6
http://www.amazon.com/Copper-Turkish-Espresso-Ottoman-Antique/dp/B008QNEEX2

Since Dunmer seem to bring a lot of inspiration from the middle east, maybe turkish/greek coffee sets would be good background ideas? I'm thinking I can make a few more concepts based off these if needed.
Post Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



Had a long conversation with Gnomey about how velk works. Here's the results:

(unrefined sketch)
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velk-Sketch-4-561756091

(more refined sketch)
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velk-Sketch-Again-561755796


Thoughts, comments?
Post Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



More sketches for some bottles and things:

http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velk-Sketches-5-562661338
Post Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Starting with the sketches in your last post:

Residue Jar: while I like the organic look, I think that might work better for House Redoran or Velothi. (Perhaps Redoran waterskins?) I think I like 8 for the residue jar, as a three-sided vessel. I'd consider a flared lip, to ensure that no residue goes to waste:


Ash Jar: I think I like the sort of big feet near the top right, but otherwise like the design in the middle with the large lid the best. (The one in your refined sketch). It should probably have a very fancy texture, except maybe for the feet.

Moving on to the refined sketch:

I like the samovar, market jug and individual cup (as before) and stirrer/resin spoon.

Slotted Spoon: I think I like the leftmost design most, though I'm not sure if I prefer it as-is or would like to see some of the aesthetic of the rightmost design incorporated (the sort of sturdier, less curvy look).

Kettle: I think the lower part of the kettle could be six-sided to match the samovar, transitioning into circular at the bottom and at the neck. The kettle form might look a little too simple, or it might not; I'm not sure.

Communal Cop: I'd consider a slightly shallower, more open bowl, like this. I think the 'feet' at the bottom could be emphasized a little more to in turn de-emphasize the bottom compartment, and would like to see a return of the fancier handles as opposed to the spikes.
Post Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:16 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ateiggaer
Member
18 Apr 2015

Location: Switzerland, the land of chocolate and cheese

Hey guys, this has to be one of the coolest discussions/ideas!

Just wanted to share some input, you maybe have a use for.
In several cultures it is a common thing to depict animals on potery/plates, and as the Velk is such a perfect creature for this, I thought I'd draw some quick suggestions of what I mean;

http://ateiggaer.deviantart.com/art/Velk-Pots-568614350?ga_submit_new=10%253A1445938230
Post Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Hm. I have a soft spot for incorporating animal forms in artwork, (which somehow sounds both oddly specific and oddly vague), but I'm not sure if it's very 'Indoril'; or if so, I'd think they'd go with a more abstract design. Generally, I think such designs would work better in, well, almost any place that isn't Indoril: House Redoran, House Dres, Telvannis and among Ashlanders, depending on how it's executed.

That being said, maybe something in this direction might work, though it's still probably not abstract enough:


(Not sure if the set would need a ring stand, but with a bit of work the basic design could work for the rim of the slotted spoon or the stem structure of the communal cup or something).
Post Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:22 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ateiggaer
Member
18 Apr 2015

Location: Switzerland, the land of chocolate and cheese

I see, I like the idea of Indoril being an exception, they maybe more have a love for more "geometric design"? Anyway I think you're totally right, that the more organic forms, belong more to House Redoran, House Telvanni etc.

Also I don't want to butt in, as I think you did already a great job with the drinking set. Altough I really like your suggestion, you convinced me that it probaby, if at all, should be on the abstract side, like those temple signs, maybe painted simplified on the side of some pots?
Post Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:56 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
10Kaziem
Lead Developer
03 Apr 2015



So this drinking set is still in development and all ideas for it are welcome, particularly art from people who are not me. I favor geometric design (I've always thought the velothi/indoril stuff we see in MW was rather blocky and solid, looked like it had been and would be there forever), but I think an abstracted geometric animal design would also work. I just picked swirls in my earlier art because they were fairly simple.

I like the new ideas!
Post Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ateiggaer
Member
18 Apr 2015

Location: Switzerland, the land of chocolate and cheese

10Kaziem wrote:


I like the new ideas!



Hi, I just made some quick sketches for a more abstract design for the samowar. Very Happy

I somehow wanted to incorporate the elegance of the Velk into the design, dont't know if it works...

http://ateiggaer.deviantart.com/art/Velk-abstract-569239219?ga_submit_new=10%253A1446233274
Post Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:28 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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