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Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Indoril-Thirr Dialouge

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Original post

This thread will serve as a repository for all non-quest dialogue for the Indoril-Thirr Section. Fill free to post suggested edits and new entries below.

Almas Thirr

Generic Dialogue

Greetings — Higher Disposition

Temple

Blessings, outlander. Welcome to Almas Thirr.

Walk with grace upon Saint Veloth’s path.

Over solemn currents, I welcome you to Almas Thirr.

Regular

This is Almas Thirr. Need help finding your way across the bridge?

Saints walk with you, outlander. What brings you to Almas Thirr?

Even outlanders find safe passage at Almas Thirr, %PCRace.

Greeting — Lower Disposition

Temple

Mind yourself in Almas Thirr, outlander. You walk upon a hallowed path.

Why do you linger in Almas Thirr, outlander?

You don’t look like a pilgrim. Why have you come to Almas Thirr?

Regular

This is Almas Thirr, outlander. What do you want?

Passing through Almas Thirr, outlander?

If you need help, ask a priest. Almas Thirr has plenty of them.

Almas Thirr

Temple

From its stronghold at Almas Thirr, the Temple mediates House relations along the Thirr River Valley. It was here that Saint Veloth led his host across the river, on his march towards the eastern coast. Nowadays, the faithful continue to follow in his path, crossing the canton’s bridge in great numbers, day after day.

Regular

You’re in Almas Thirr, outlander, a stronghold and river port bridging the Thirr River Valley. From the canton, The Order of the Watch guards the settlement and upholds Temple doctrine. In the town below, you’ll mostly find craftmer, boatmer and fishermer going about their lives. You’ll also see plenty of travelers making their way over the bridge. Pilgrims pay their respects at the Shrine of Crossing, merchants peddle goods and sailors wait for their ships to be scrutinized at the docks.

Savant

Almas Thirr, or "Mother Thirr" in the tongue of the West, is a stronghold built upon the waters of the Thirr River. Founded at a site of great religious significance to the Dunmer, the Tribunal Temple governs the settlement. Its majordomo mediates conflicts between House Indoril and House Hlaalu up and down the Thirr River Valley.

Scout

Almas Thirr is a Temple stronghold that guards the only bridge across the Thirr River. It spans the river directly to the south of Ebonheart, west of Almalexia.

Latest rumor

Temple

Rumors flow from the House of Troubles, outlander. I will not utter them here in Almas Thirr. Through untiring faith, a fortress withstands all storms.

Regular

Rothis Thalur seems to think there’s a choir of dreugh living in the waters off Almas Thirr. Says they’re living in a wrecked ship or grotto. Unusual for dreugh to swim in these parts. Maybe the old gaffer should lay off the mazte.

REMAINING SPOTS RESERVED FOR FUTURE QUEST PLANS

Little advice

Temple

Respect the Temple’s doctrine and the authority of its priests and Ordinators. The Order of the Watch patrols Almas Thirr and no heresy escapes their notice.

Regular

Best mind your actions when in Almas Thirr, outlander. Ordinators don’t take kindly to transgressors of the laws and doctrines. Not here in a Temple stronghold. They’re not as forgiving as those Great House guards either.

For as long as anyone and their mother’s mother can remember, the Temple has provided for Almas Thirr’s townspeople. Priests counseled the masses, maintained the holy shrines and aided pilgrims and the poor. But these are trying times, outlander. Between cultists and House conflicts, the Temple has a lot on its hands. Nowadays, its priests can only do so much.

ONE MORE ENTRY

Little secret

Not many outlanders live in Almas Thirr. One who comes to mind is Tilresi, the Bookseller. She set up shop in the Canalworks a few years back. Most think her harmless, though she has a head full of funny ideas.

Almas Thirr’s monastery was built into the riverbank well over a thousand years ago, long before the canton and bridge existed. The Shrine of Crossing itself is even older.

ONE MORE ENTRY

Local area

From the chapel of Roa Dyr, Indoril Draler Ilvi rules over the peasant villages of the eastern lowlands, including Dondrit and Vhul. Plantations and yeoman farmsteads cover most of the western side of the river. The largest is the Oran Plantation, home to Hlaalu Council Elector Atran Oran. West of here, there’s the small river port of Indas, and to the north you’ll find the Mundrethi Plantation and its famed slave market. If you travel further downstream, you’ll reach Ebonheart, the Imperial’s fortress at the mouth of the Thirr River. Going south will take you past the Hlaalu port at Hlan Oek.

Local Economy

What sort of goods pass through Almas Thirr, you ask? Well, foreign wares and saltrice are shipped north into the Inner Sea, while transport barges carry Vvardenfell’s mineral riches to ports like Narsis in the south. All of it gets processed at the dockyard. There the Temple inspects the cargo of passing ships and levies tariffs and tolls. Merchants love to gripe about that. Slave traders usually just herd their chattel over the bridge.

Services

If you need healing or spiritual guidance, visit the Tribunal Temple in the Canalworks. Nearby, Dolyn Gavo offers drink and grub at the Thirsty Saint Cornerclub and the outlander Tilresi sells books and scrolls. Outside the canton, you can rent a bed at The Limping Scrib and barter with Dralas Vando at the tradehouse. If you’re a pilgrim, you can sleep at the Temple Hostel. Most merchants are only in Almas Thirr passing through, but a few set up stalls at the market along the western bridge. Dralosa Arethi at the Tailors and Dyers Hall also trades with travelers, as does Darane Navur, the pawnbroker and Anmoleth, the outfitter. Ralis Nalor moors his boat at the western dock and will take you downriver to Andothren or Ebonheart, or upriver to Ald Mar. Or you can ride Gadyni Othril’s siltstrider to Emayn Mor, Othmura, Othren or Vhul.

Someone in particular

The Majordomo of the Crossing, ____ presides over Almas Thirr and its garrison of Ordinators. ____ provides guidance to the local clergy at the Monastery, while Hetman Norasa Llothri represents the Velothi townspeople. Indoril Silsi Ralavor commands a company of House guards stationed on the east bank. Avon Hlaalu is the Hlaalu Council Company’s visiting delegate.

Specific place

The canton has four levels, the Plaza, Waistworks, Canalworks and the Underworks. The Plaza is where the senior priests reside, while the Waistworks house the Ordinator barracks and Temple offices. The Canalworks is where common folk gather -- at the Tribunal Temple, public tomb and the Thirsty Saint Cornerclub. Hardly anyone heads down into the Underworks unless they’re up to no good. Pilgrim’s flock to the Shrine of Crossing, found in the ancient monastery that stands on the east bank across from the docks. An outdoor market spans the western bridge. Nearby, there’s The Limping Scrib inn and the various tradehouses and craftmer halls.



Unique Dialogue


Dondrit

Generic Dialogue

Greetings – disposition > 80

What brings you to Dondrit, sera?

Dondrit harvests the bounty of our lord’s Garden, sera, but it doesn’t have much to offer travelers.

Saints bless you on your path through the Thirr River Valley, sera.

Greetings

What do you want in our village, outlander?

Be on your way, outlander. You’ll gain nothing from dawdling in Dondrit.

Folk in Dondrit don’t have time to carry on with nosy foreigners. Keep out of our way.

Dondrit

Our village rests in the eastern foothills of the Thirr River Valley. We grow our crops -- mostly corkbulb and meadow rye -- on communal plots and keep to ourselves. We toil in the fields and drive the slaves our lord provides us for labor.

Local area

The northward road will take you to Ebonheart. Go east and you’ll find yourself in the arid pumice coastlands of the Sundered Scar. Taking the southern route will bring you to the township of Vhul and beyond that Roa Dyr, the estate of our lord. To the west lies Felms Ithul, a Velk herding farmstead.

Latest rumors

Feral Velks have been making a mess of the fields around Dondrit. Most figure they must have escaped from the Felms Ithul paddock west of here. Wild Velk are usually too skittish to come close to settlements, you see. We've driven them away a number of times, but they keep sneaking back to nibble on our crops.

A local peasant saw a pair of Orcs heading towards Hadrumnibibi. No one but cultists or conjurers would ever visit that evil place. The hetman is looking to ask our lord’s guards to burn them out. In the meantime, the witch hunter Galor Sothro might scout out the old shrine himself.

Little advice

Looking for a route into the east, outlander? You’d best avoid taking the direct road east of here into the Sundered Scar. I’ve heard travelers say that once you reach Id Vnas, there’s only a rough network of footpaths leading into the mires.

A Temple infirmary to the north acts as a refuge for the sick and injured. Look for a Velothi tower in the wilderness close to the Bani-dad Caldera if you need healing.

Little secret

All sorts of peasant farming communities like Dondrit dot the east bank of the Thirr River.

Many outlanders come passing through Dondrit grumbling about being swindled by the Syvvit Tong in Vhul. No one pays much attention to them. Foreigners talk too much.

Roa Dyr

That’s our lord’s chapel. Indoril Draler Ilvi holds sway over these parts. He is our benevolent lord and adjudicator of Tribunal law. We pay a tithe to him for the right to grow crops on his land.

Services

You can sometimes find local craftsmer bartering wares in the village center. If you can’t get ahold of what you want there, take the road south to Vhul. Its local tong has plenty of goods on hand. Of course, an outlander like you would probably be better off heading north to Ebonheart.

Someone particular

There aren't a whole lot of notable people in Dondrit. Hetman Nalis Varo represents us peasants to our lords of House Indoril. She doesn’t take kindly to outlanders barging into her house unannounced, so don’t expect a friendly welcome like she gives the Indoril guards. Besides her, there’s the village witch hunter, Tidros Galor and the village smith, Fothras Voryn.

Specific place

You looking for a place in Dondrit or the local area? Here in the village, the hetman lives on the watchtower’s upper floor, above the craftsmer hall, which overlooks the marketplace. Not much else around here but farmer shacks and fields. What else did you expect to find in a tiny village?



Unique Dialogue

Nalis Varo

Greeting

With humblest blessings, I welcome you to Dondrit, Serjo %PCName, %Rank of the House Indoril.
An outlander in my home? What’s this village coming to?

Background

I am Nalis Varo, hetman of Dondrit. I represent its needs to Lord Indoril Draler Ilvi and offer lodgings to his guards as they tirelessly patrol the valley.

Dondrit

As an itinerant priest of the Temple, I roamed from village to village, preaching the Tribune’s sermons. Yet I never saw many outlanders until I settled here. They wander in, peddlers, sellswords, abolitionists and the like. Nothing but nuisances.

Tidros Galor

Greeting

It is an honor to welcome a %PCRank of the House Indoril to my home, Serjo. Have you come here to look into the cultists moving into Hadrumnibibi?

Hmmm, I guess you don't look like a bloodsucking vampire or deranged cultist. Still, you outlanders are peculiar folk. With cultists moving into Hadrumnibibi, I have enough to worry about.

Background

Who, me? The name's %Name. I'm a witch hunter, or at least I used to be. For now I have retired from those labors.

Dondrit

I've lived here ever since I got too old to hunt witches, vampires and all their ilk. I’m not good for much, though I guess the local mer feel safer with someone like me around.

Fothras Voryn

Greeting

How might a humble village smith assist you, Serjo?
Another outlander from Old Ebonheart, I take it? I can fix up your gear if you need a smith’s services.

Background

I am the village smith. I repair farming equipment and sell my wares to passing travelers.

Dondrit

Well the village isn’t much to look at, if you catch my meaning, outlander, but it’s been good to me all these years. Some mer might not like all the foreigners we get on the road, but I don’t mind them much. They give me more occasions to apply my trade, at least.




Roa Dyr

Generic Dialogue

Unique Dialogue


Vhul

Generic Dialogue

Greetings disposition > 80

You’re in Vhul -- one of the local area’s larger villages. Looking for someone in particular?

Seryn’s blessings, sera. What brings you to Vhul?

Looking for a specific place in Vhul, outlander? Not much here besides the temple and craftsmer halls.

Greetings

You’re in Vhul. If you’ve come to barter, seek the Syvvit Tong.

Planning to stay long in Vhul, outlander? Our town has little to offer your kind.

Another outlander visits Vhul. You ought to keep to your own people.

Vhul

The mer here are simple folk -- mostly craftsmer and peddlers. We harvest nectar from Velk, both tamed and wild, and brew it into liquor. Our village sees its fair share of outlanders, thanks largely to the Syvvit Tong. Rest of us like to keep to ourselves.

Roa Dyr

Roa Dyr is the Chapel of our lord, Indoril Draler Ilvi. All townships and farmsteads of the Thirr River Valley live under his protection. I’ve heard he’s an enlightened mer -- like the saints of old.

Syvvit Tong

You want to know about the local tong? They barter with every shabby foreigner who wanders into the village. Imperial gold dims their senses, but they’re not a bad lot.

Services

Most villagers barter for food and goods around here, but we also have a craftsmer halls and tradehouse. Our tradesmer, Ivorna Telns oversees the latter and barters with passing merchants for goods the village might need. Marayn Voldal runs an inn where passersby can rest. We also have a cornerclub, though its patrons are mostly Syvvit Tong members these days. The apothecary Falas Othril makes potions for the Temple and townspeople. He’s known to offer excess goods to travelers. You can also barter with Syvvit Tong peddlers and the outlander shops.

Someone in Particular

Serjo Vanis Nithri is the village hetman -- a strict, sensible mer and the only elder in the village who has actually met our lord. The priest Lloryno Norom tends to our spiritual needs and Marayn Voldal runs the inn. Delasi Llothin is the head brewer. That’s all the notable people in these parts.

Specific Place

You’ve got the temple on the southern edge of the village, near the road where peddlers have set up their stands. The hetman lives close by, next to The Howling Hound inn. In the north side, there’s the tradehouse and the Hall of Craftsmer. Head south of there, and you’ll find the cornerclub where the Syvvit Tong likes to gather. That’s about it, unless you want to know about the local area too.

Local area

Most mer in Vhul rarely travel far beyond the village. We know that Roa Dyr, the Chapel of our lord, lies to the south near Almas Thirr -- a Temple stronghold that spans the Thirr River. South of that you’ll find a huddle of small hamlets. Taking the road north will bring you to Dondrit, a farming village, and beyond that a great stronghold where many outlanders dwell. The road west will take you to Felm Ithul. We get a lot of our nectar sacks from its Velk pen. Take the road east to cross into the Yad Orethan.

Latest Rumors

Just the other day, Lloryno Norom over at the Temple delivered a sermon against mingling with outlanders. That will sure put some of the villagers in an awkward bind.

That grubby Nord merchant ought to go back to where he came already. He’s been raising a fuss around Vhul for days, hassling hard-working mer like the hetman with complaints. Says he was swindled by the townspeople. Typical foreigner -- slandering honest mer for his own gain.

Onvos Dovyn should know better than to peddle his wares on the Temple’s grounds. I hear Lloryno Norom and the other priests are losing patience with him. Soon enough, he’ll find himself repenting for his conduct.

Little Advice

Don’t let their passive behavior fool you -- Velks can put up a struggle when they’re spooked. Of course, the nectar in their glands makes up for the trouble handling them.

Little Secret

In the old days we could go years without seeing a foreigner in Vhul. Now you wander into our town on a whim. Times change, I supposed, but that doesn’t mean everyone has to like it.

An outlander hedge-wizard called Narvs Sodryth lives in Vhul. He runs a wizard shop in the outskirts. Most think his magic is profane – not fit for decent folk to meddle with.

Did you come to Vhul thinking you could sample our brewery’s liquor? That stuff’s meant for the lips of lords only. It would take a shocking glut of arrogance to taste the drink of the nobility.

Syvvit Tong

Greeting

Looking for services in Vhul, sera? The Syvvit Tong trades with all travelers.

Want to chat, outlander? Why don’t you give my goods a look first?

Need something for your journey? You won’t find finer wares in Vhul than what the Syvvit Tong offers.

Background

I am %Name, %Class of the Syvvit Tong.

Vhul

Our village is like any other, I suppose. Mostly craftsmer toiling away in service to our lords. When outlanders began roaming into these parts, some of us thought it best to make the most of the situation and barter for their goods and gold. Nothing wrong with making one’s life a little bit more pleasant. Wouldn’t you say so, sera?

Syvvit Tong

We mean no disrespect to our saints and lords. We’re just resourceful. With more and more of you foreigners visiting the local area, why not make the best of it? We may not be overly fond of you westerners, but your crafts and gold are as good as any.

Services

No need to barter for goods at the village tradehouse, sera. The Syvvit Tong will gladly trade with you. We have the best supplies in Vhul, and we’re not above handing them over to outlanders for the right price.

Someone in particular

Anyone and their mother in Vhul can tell you about the hetman, priest and head brewer. Among the Syvvit Tong, however, you’ll want to meet the innkeeper Marayn Voldal, the merchant Ienasa Llothil and the cornerclub publican, Vavis Danvon.



Unique Dialogue

Hetman Vanis Nithri

Greeting

What brings you into our village, outlander? Do you foolishly seek a sip of our village’s Velk liquor?

Background

I am Vanis Nithri, Hetman of Vhul.

Syvvit Tong

Their behavior is shameful in the eyes of our lord.

Vhul

We’re just another village of peasants protected under the illuminated wisdom of Muther-sil Indoril Draler Ilvi. We distill Velk nectar so that it might sweeten the meditations of our lords of House Indoril. At the same time, we praise the memory of Saint Seryn’s spirit with our crafts.

Lloryno Norom

Greeting

With Saint Seryn’s mercy, I welcome you to Vhul’s temple, %Rank. Perhaps you might be able to help us cleanse the temple grounds?

Though Saint Seryn’s mercy extends even to your kind, outlander, our temple has little to offer you. We have enough on our hands trying to cleanse the temple grounds.

Background

I am %Name, %Class and %Rank of the %Faction. I serve as Vhul’s priest and preach the Triune’s sermons to the local peasantry.

The temple grounds

You’ve seen him outside, haven’t you? The Syvvit Tong peddler Onvos Dovyn? He’s been peddling trinkets on temple grounds for the past few days now. Could you make him leave? All the outlanders his stand attracts are distracting the priests and worshipers.

Vhul

For years, I’ve tried to shield it from all the strange ideas foreigners tout when they pass through.

Syvvit Tong

They set a poor example for everyone in the village.

Ienasa Llothil

Greeting

Want to trade?

Background

My name? It’s Ienasa Llothil. I’m a %Class of the Syvvit Tong. I trade with passing outlanders like you. Sometimes I help out at the brewery.

Vhul

As peasants, we don’t get to enjoy much of life’s pleasures, outlander. That’s what the Syvvit Tong wants to change.

Onvos Dovyn

Greeting

You like my goods, muthsera? Worth a few coins, yes?

Background

Name’s %Name. I’m not much for chatting. I would rather let my goods do the talking, if you take my meaning, sera.

Vhul

We’re unfussy folk. We keep to our labors and faith. Saints and spirits, and all that. I was nothing but a poor fetcher until joining the Syvvit Tong. At least now I have a few pleasures to pass the day.

Adosl Drinith

Greeting

Need something fixed? You won’t find another smith in Vhul.

Background

I an %Name, %Class. You can probably tell from my accent that I’m not from around here. I immigrated from out west. Wanted to enjoy a simple life among my fellow countrymer. My knack for mending tools helped me gain acceptance here in Vhul.

Vhul

The village peasantry aren’t the friendliest to newcomers, but they talk straight for the most part. Now the Syvvit Tong -- they like to talk friendly with outlanders. But they aren’t called the “Swindler’s Guild” for nothing. They get a kick out of profiting at the expense of “n’wah” like us. Though they often rub the hetman and priests the wrong way, some are fairly well respected.

Narvs Sodryth

Greeting

Need magical wares or services? You need not worry about guild markup here.

Background

You can call me %Name. I was trained in magic as a member of the Mages Guild in Cyrodiil, where I was born. After several long years, I cut ties with the guild, moved to Morrowind and set up shop in Indoril territory. So far the locals have left me in peace far more than the guild and its pesky bureaucracy.

Vhul

For now, the villagers tolerate my magical studies and services. Maybe one day they’ll change their minds and try to roast me on a pole. But until then I’ll stick to my quiet life here. I mostly serve travelers, though a few locals come to me for charms -- usually in the dead of night.

Honns

Greeting

Looking to make a profit, friend? Then you’ve wandered into the wrong village. These swindling dark elves will pinch your pack clean.

Background

The name’s Honns. I’m a %Class who was fool enough to think I could negotiate fair deals with these miserable red-eyed rogues.

Vhul

I should have known these dark elves were nothing but scheming devils, but the scoundrels can make even the foulest lies sound honest.

Swindling dark elves

That’s what they are. The whole lot of them. The minute I set foot in their miserable village, they were hawking food and trinkets to me. Only afterwards did I realize I hadn’t gotten a fair deal when exchanging my belongings. You’re not from around here either, are you? Maybe you’d have better luck getting these swindlers to fess up to cheating me?


_________________
-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords


Last edited by Yeti on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Nice! As far as some of the dialogue, like for background for a few of the unique NPCs, it could really be spruced up though. :/
Post Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

First of all, please do not use the names from Swiftoak's map. We have not adopted them, certainly for the time being, and if we do adopt them later we can always search-and-replace them in. (I'd be willing to do so myself should it prove necessary).
I'm also not sure here you got 'Dondrit' from. That's not even in Swiftoak's map as far as I can tell.

ALMAS THIRR

Little advice
For as long as anyone and their mother’s mother can remember, the Temple has provided for Almas Thirr’s townspeople. Priests counseled the masses, maintained the holy shrines and aided pilgrims and the poor. But these are trying times, outlander. Between cultists and House conflicts, the Temple has a lot on its hands. Nowadays, its priests can only do so much.

-this is not really advice as-is, though I'm not sure if that's a problem. Perhaps something in the general direction of: '[...]. Nowadays we can't just wait for the Temple to make our problems go away. Those of us who are weak must look to the strong to solve our problems, and those who are strong must look after themselves.'

Little secret
-they're not really secrets, though again I'm not sure if it's a big deal. An alternative for the former might be something like '[...]. She's a little strange, as outlanders are, but I sometimes seek her counsel if I have trouble understanding outlanders, and perhaps she has counsel for outlanders as well.' The latter, far from being secret, sounds like one of the first things people visiting Almas Thirr would hear. It might sort of pass as a secret like so: 'Almas Thirr's monastery is ancient, the Shrine of Crossing more so, but not the stronghold itself. The stronghold was built because the Houses stopped working together; a far cry from the days when Veloth's people marched as a single body, and a far cry from the days when even the proudest of Housemer feared to tread where the Temple would not have them go.' (In case anyone wonders, the latter is hearkening back to an age that never actually existed).

Local area
From the chapel of Roa Dyr, Indoril Draler Ilvi rules over the peasant villages of the eastern lowlands, including Dondrit and Vhul. Plantations and yeoman farmsteads cover most of the western side of the river. The largest is the Oran Plantation, home to Hlaalu Council Elector Atran Oran. West of here, there’s the small river port of Indas, and to the north you’ll find the Mundrethi Plantation and its famed slave market. If you travel further downstream, you’ll reach Ebonheart, the Imperial’s fortress at the mouth of the Thirr River. Going south will take you past the Hlaalu port at Hlan Oek.

-I'd rather the Mundrethi market not be referred to as 'famed'; hopefully there will be more slave markets in future, and some should certainly be larger and more important than that one.

Specific place
[...] Pilgrim’s flock to the Shrine of Crossing, found in the ancient monastery that stands on the east bank across from the docks. [...]

-The apostrophe in 'pilgrim's' shouldn't be there. (The so-called 'greengrocer's apostrophe')

Edit: I almost forgot: the 'regular' entries for Almas Thirr seem to specifically be Dunmer (Velothi) replies. There should certainly be non-Dunmer replies as well, but it is a WIP after all.
Post Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:02 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Thanks for the feedback, Gnomey. You're right. In hindsight, I should have kept the current names. Some outlander entries for Almas Thirr also wouldn't hurt, I agree.

Ironed Maidens wrote:
Nice! As far as some of the dialogue, like for background for a few of the unique NPCs, it could really be spruced up though. :/
How so?
_________________
-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Post Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Hetman Vanis Nithri

Background

I am Vanis Nithri, Hetman of Vhul.

What would be better suited would be

Background (70 Disposition or above.)

I am Vanis Nithri. Generations of my family have all been born and died in Vhul. As such, it is an honor to have been proclaimed the Hetman of Vhul, and I always lend a cautious ear to all of my people while keeping the sanctimonious glasses of our Nectar full.

Background (69 or lower Disposition.)

Yes, Outlander? These blessed grounds you walk upon hold centuries of tradition that do not concern you. So I must vainly ask, what is it you want? You could never understand the Hetman way, nor will you ever understand the sacred language of the Nectar.



Just as an idea. The great thing about Morrowind is that we don't need voice acting (well, we could always use some, but whatever...) so the responses can be varied and extremely specific about a certain topic. I don't know if you recall my Topics of Tamriel thread, but really the only reason I created it was so you guys could pick and pull dialogue from it as well for certain generic responses to things like Latest Rumors, Little Secret, Tribunal, etc etc.
Post Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:03 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Ok, so I am working on dialogue for Roa Dyr and I have an idea to implement for Draler Ilvi. I am thinking this character could have a near-CHIM awareness; at the very least he is well on his way to trying to mantle the Walking Paths. This wouldn't be over-done or very in-your-face to the player, but seeing as he is an Illuminated Elder, I think this rank should infer a sense of, as Draler himself would put it, "spacial acuity", or knowing there is a metaphysical side to life. It wouldn't really hinder his overall image of a hero of the war or anything, but it would really add some flavor to him and his family. Here's what I have so far for him:

Draler Ilvi:

Quote:
Roa Dyr: This city is the ever-watching eye for the Thirr River Valley. It is here that I stand guard for all of my people who wish to live the life the ALSIVI have dreamed for us. The Hlaalu kinsmen and retainers to the east and south want to take control of this holy area for economical reasons. I will not lie, %pcclass, the Thirr River is an extremely important trade route, but it is also an extremely important part of Dunmer history, where the Exodus of Veloth battled the harsh currents and where our ancestors found true harmony with the nation of Morrowind. This is the main reason why I fight; for the preservation of our integral aura, the anima of our forefathers that still burns within all Dunmer. As long as Roa Dyr and my manor stand tall, so will the Indoril.

My Manor: Yes, you are in my manor. Below us are the servant's quarters. I tend to matters in here, my war room. My youngest son, Danvas, is here to study how I work in the arts of subtlety, tact, and digression. Across the hall is the family temple; every Dunmer household should have some fashion of worship in it. My wife Tavylu is upstairs managing the lesser works of the estate. She was once an aspiring historian and she still studies up on the past of all of Tamirel, though she specializes in Nordic and Dwemeri cultures.

My middle son Llaren should be upstairs as well. He understands the odds that we face every day, but he knows only a fraction of how the Houses work. I would like to spend more time with him, teaching him how the geographic borders of our land are directly shaped by the political landscape, and not the other way around. However, recently I have been busier than I would like to elaborate on, dealing with many things both Hlaalu and non-Hlaalu related.

Further down in the foyer my daughter Gilse can be found. She's preparing for the cohesion of our family and another Indoril noble family. I know the groom very well, and I wouldn't have arranged for anyone else to marry her. He's a smart solder, a wealthy bureaucrat, and most importantly, he isn't garrulous. My eldest son...well, you should just speak to him. He's really quite something. There are other various retainers and our shrine priest who live here as well.

Little Advice: Live under the grace of ALMSIVI and you will be rewarded with more than a humble life or even a blessed afterlife. There are many abstruse and sinuous Walking Paths in the Temple, %pcname, and in understanding the bending of the shadows of patron saints and the walking Three one can garner a cognizant pulse of the physical world.

My rank in Great House Indoril has only been granted to me after countless hours of rumination about myself, my soul, my nation, and my nations souls. After a homologous recognition from Almalexia herself, I am finally able grasp what the title of Illuminated Elder truly means. Work hard and work swift, %pcname, and you too may sojourn the same spacial acuity I am.



Let me know what you think of this plan, and I will continue to work on giving unique dialogue to basically everyone in Roa Dyr.
Post Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:09 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I probably should have mentioned this sooner, but I've also been putting together some initial Roa Dyr dialogue, mostly generic greetings, latest rumors and other topics of that variety. It's a bit too soon to be writing anything more substantial than that, since the settlement has not been completely finalized. As always, your contributions are welcome, Ironed Maidens (I forgot to post before that I quite like your Background suggestions for Vanis Nithri), but I do have a few issues with your more recent suggestions.

First, I'd like to point towards a character concept for Indoril Draler Ilvi listed in an Indoril Planning document (created partly by Swiftoak). While not finalized yet, I believe ig gives Roa Dyr's lord a compelling personality, and don't imagine we will change it much moving forward:

Indoril Draler Ilvi of the Winged-Kwoom-House of Ilvi (38 corners). Muther-sil Roa-Dyr of the Star-Wound and the Countless Gardens-Beyond. Sworn Keeper of Delyn’s Creed, and Master of the Laws Determined. Learned of the School of Tilling.

As Muther-sil Roa Dyr, Draler Ilvi is one of the most powerful Illuminated Elders of House Indoril. His enlightenment and study of the Laws Determined span many ages, though they have taken a toll on his sanity. He counts the years of his illumination by instructing his servants to hang lanterns around the Gardens, as a symbol of accumulated wisdom. He vainly believes that in practicing such extreme rituals, he will reach the state of Ascension. A former pupil of the School of Tilling, his dominion spans much of the Heartland, including the Thirr River valley, and in theory, also the lands of Veloth and Narsis. It is rumoured that he desires sainthood, and is said to be preparing his mind (and machinations) for when that time does come.

Here are some comments on your dialogue. My apologies for the length.

- In general, I believe references to CHIM should be kept scarce and vague in our mod. It's the kind of existential concept that only gods like Vivec or ridiculously long-lived sorcerers like Divayth Fyr should even be aware of. Certainly, I don't believe it has much of a place within the beliefs of the orthodox Indoril.

- Roa Dyr isn't a city; it is Indoril Draler Ilvi's manor/estate/palace - part of a collection of uniquely Indoril settlement types Tamriel Rebuilt is referring to as "Chapels of the Garden" or just "Chapels." Basically, the Indoril organize their lands into fiefdoms administered by a high-ranking noble, who tends to the needs of the local peasants as someone might tend a garden. As a generally rule, their estates don't have shops, inns, fast-travel or other services tailored to the player. They are simply large, isolated homes for Indoril nobles, along with their kinsman, retainers, servants and slaves.

- Your Roa Dyr topic pretty much matches what I'd expect Ilvi to think about his role defending the Thirr River Valley. But it's also a bit too long - I can't imagine an Illuminated Elder would want to spend their valuable time explaining things in such great detail to a pesky outlander.

- In regards to Ilvi's wife, no self-respecting Indoril noblewoman would ever lower herself to study the Nords or Dwemer. To the Indoril, the Nords are unwashed barbarians and the Dwemer profane blasphemers. The Indoril would find little value in the history of these peoples. To be honest, I'm not sure they would have dedicated historians to begin with. They likely see the study of history as only a component of their all-encompassing legal and theological studies - two interweaving topics that take precedence in their culture.

- I like the first part of your Little Advice topic. Though I'd tweak the wording a bit here and there and make the tone a little more condescending, it definitely sounds like the kind of doctrinal mumbo jumbo an Indoril noble might pronounce. It might work better as a generic topic available from all Indoril faction members, rather than something Ilvi would specifically say.

- As for the second paragraph, I don't think the sentence: "Work hard and work swift, %pcname, and you too may sojourn the same spacial acuity I am" fits Indoril beliefs. Indoril society is ludicrously stratified. An Illuminated Elder like Ilvi would never consider it possible for a Dunmer commoner to rise to their enlightened level, much less an outlander. Their status is inborn - not something that can be earned. That's what they believe, at least. Obviously if the player joins House Indoril, he or she will prove that assertion wrong.

- Unique dialogue for every NPC in a settlement isn't something I want to see Tamriel Rebuilt implement moving forward. For a project of our scale, the Less Generic NPC model is unsupportable, requiring far too much time to write, edit and manage that much dialogue. I've tried it before over at Skyrim: Home of the Nords and quite nearly drove myself insane coming up with enough dialogue for a small village. It also would make our lands inconsistent with the vanilla game. Bethesda deliberately made it so most NPCS you encounter on Vvardenfell are unremarkable. Having an "anonymous backdrop" of generic NPCs helps make the world feel populated without overwhelming the player with information. It helps them pick out who the important characters are from the faceless masses. Ultimately, players don't need to know the back story of every average-joe Dunmer walking around Balmora.

Again, I greatly appreciate your dialogue contributions, Ironed Maidens. There's definitely a good chunk of useful stuff in your post. I simply think it needs fine-tuning to fit our project's lore and conventions. I do hope you don't take my massive list of feedback the wrong way. I don't mean to come across as judgmental or pretentious. I'm simply a bit overprotective when it comes to what dialogue makes it into our mod.

_________________
-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Post Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Your entries for Ilvi certainly gave me some food for thought on characterizing Indoril, leading to some rather extensive notes:

"Roa Dyr: This city" - not a city; his abode. Generally called chapels.
"My Manor:" - I'm not sure if Indoril value subtlety as such. It's an interesting question. Discretion might work a little better. I don't think we should portray them as overly cautious; I'd rather say they are calculating, capable of lying in wait or taking bold action as necessary.
"every Dunmer household should have some fashion of worship in it" - I think this goes without saying; there is no separation between the mundane and spiritual realm, so you can't have a Dunmer household without worship. I'd rather say 'every Dunmer household should hold a space apart for the spirit alone', or something to that effect.
I'm not sure if an Indoril wife would handle the lesser works of the estate, unless it's a particular hobby of Tavylu herself or something. They have servants and slaves for that, and I don't really think we want to portray the Indoril as chauvinistic, as that line seems to imply. Partners by marriage -- generally fellow Indoril -- are essentially equals, each likely having their own concerns and duties to attend to.
Little Advice: I'm not sure if Dunmer could be said to believe in an afterlife, though that is fairly nebulous.

In general, I feel as though the entries read rather unnaturally. Always remember that this is supposed to be dialogue, not a design document; some outlander who may or may not be aquainted or related by marriage to Ilvi strikes up a conversation with him. I feel as though you're trying to put all information upfront when that's rather unnatural. If anything, I'd expect Ilvi to have separate entries for, for example, all of his family members, so that, specifically if the player asks, he will tell the player a little about them.
Morrowind's dialogue system becomes clumsy when you have longer entries, and I think that's intentional: despite Morrowind's vast quantity of text, its dialogue actually tends to be incredibly short and to the point. The specific information pertaining to a topic is provided, with only very subtle characterization. The characterization only really becomes more apparent when several entries are read together or you talk with different NPCs about the same person. So if you ask Ilvi about his chapel, he tells you about his chapel.

Edit: hah, posted at pretty much the same time as Yeti. The points we bring up are a little different, though. I haven't really been giving much feedback to writing recently, so just see this as a bit of overcompensation.
Post Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:35 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Hookay, lots to consider. First and foremost, I think I forgot to mention that this dialogue will only appear once the PC is part of House Indoril. If you're not, then he will give you pretty short/basic answers for most things, and some of the dialogue entries/options will simply not show up as a result. Now, for the rundown...

Yeti wrote:
I probably should have mentioned this sooner, but I've also been putting together some initial Roa Dyr dialogue, mostly generic greetings, latest rumors and other topics of that variety. It's a bit too soon to be writing anything more substantial than that, since the settlement has not been completely finalized. As always, your contributions are welcome, Ironed Maidens (I forgot to post before that I quite like your Background suggestions for Vanis Nithri), but I do have a few issues with your more recent suggestions.

First, I'd like to point towards a character concept for Indoril Draler Ilvi listed in an Indoril Planning document (created partly by Swiftoak). While not finalized yet, I believe ig gives Roa Dyr's lord a compelling personality, and don't imagine we will change it much moving forward:

Indoril Draler Ilvi of the Winged-Kwoom-House of Ilvi (38 corners). Muther-sil Roa-Dyr of the Star-Wound and the Countless Gardens-Beyond. Sworn Keeper of Delyn’s Creed, and Master of the Laws Determined. Learned of the School of Tilling.

As Muther-sil Roa Dyr, Draler Ilvi is one of the most powerful Illuminated Elders of House Indoril. His enlightenment and study of the Laws Determined span many ages, though they have taken a toll on his sanity. He counts the years of his illumination by instructing his servants to hang lanterns around the Gardens, as a symbol of accumulated wisdom. He vainly believes that in practicing such extreme rituals, he will reach the state of Ascension. A former pupil of the School of Tilling, his dominion spans much of the Heartland, including the Thirr River valley, and in theory, also the lands of Veloth and Narsis. It is rumoured that he desires sainthood, and is said to be preparing his mind (and machinations) for when that time does come.

Ok, I should have tired to see if there was any planning on him yet. I actually really like this concept of him ad I can certainly work with it. I believe it would give him a more compelling tone, and I can write him in such a fashion that it would still give him a sense of enlightenment but at what cost and how much is enough, type of deal.

Here are some comments on your dialogue. My apologies for the length.

- In general, I believe references to CHIM should be kept scarce and vague in our mod. It's the kind of existential concept that only gods like Vivec or ridiculously long-lived sorcerers like Divayth Fyr should even be aware of. Certainly, I don't believe it has much of a place within the beliefs of the orthodox Indoril.

I would assume that someone in his position would want to try and gather as much insight of the waking world as possible, as he will do whatever it takes to make sure the Indoril survive. Like I said, not that he would be CHIM-like, but more like he would be on a Walking Path of Five, rather than Six, as he could never fully achieve CHIM or know what CHIM is. But he could still know that there's a way to gain mastery, just as all Saints of the Triune have a type of 'this is what my role in life consists of' mentality, he would know this calling as being more than just "living a life of virtue" and requires some type of transcendence into divinity.

- Roa Dyr isn't a city; it is Indoril Draler Ilvi's manor/estate/palace - part of a collection of uniquely Indoril settlement types Tamriel Rebuilt is referring to as "Chapels of the Garden" or just "Chapels." Basically, the Indoril organize their lands into fiefdoms administered by a high-ranking noble, who tends to the needs of the local peasants as someone might tend a garden. As a generally rule, their estates don't have shops, inns, fast-travel or other services tailored to the player. They are simply large, isolated homes for Indoril nobles, along with their kinsman, retainers, servants and slaves.

Sorry, I forgot. It somehow slipped my mind, I will rewrite it to be more in lieu with his characterization and put the estate part in.

- Your Roa Dyr topic pretty much matches what I'd expect Ilvi to think about his role defending the Thirr River Valley. But it's also a bit too long - I can't imagine an Illuminated Elder would want to spend their valuable time explaining things in such great detail to a pesky outlander.

As I said, I forgot to mention that these responses would only show up for those in Hose Indoril.

- In regards to Ilvi's wife, no self-respecting Indoril noblewoman would ever lower herself to study the Nords or Dwemer. To the Indoril, the Nords are unwashed barbarians and the Dwemer profane blasphemers. The Indoril would find little value in the history of these peoples. To be honest, I'm not sure they would have dedicated historians to begin with. They likely see the study of history as only a component of their all-encompassing legal and theological studies - two interweaving topics that take precedence in their culture.

Now with this, I have some insight into instead of her being a type of historian, she could have been obsessed with the Order of The Being, which is kiiiind of almost like a law woman but focuses on how the laws of nature pertain to keeping all things, including history, in Order.

- I like the first part of your Little Advice topic. Though I'd tweak the wording a bit here and there and make the tone a little more condescending, it definitely sounds like the kind of doctrinal mumbo jumbo an Indoril noble might pronounce. It might work better as a generic topic available from all Indoril faction members, rather than something Ilvi would specifically say.

I will tweak it to seem, not so condescending as...perhaps, more matter-of-factly.

- As for the second paragraph, I don't think the sentence: "Work hard and work swift, %pcname, and you too may sojourn the same spacial acuity I am" fits Indoril beliefs. Indoril society is ludicrously stratified. An Illuminated Elder like Ilvi would never consider it possible for a Dunmer commoner to rise to their enlightened level, much less an outlander. Their status is inborn - not something that can be earned. That's what they believe, at least. Obviously if the player joins House Indoril, he or she will prove that assertion wrong.

I will teak this as well to perhaps say "With hard discipline and swift meditation, %pcname, you may get a glimpse of the same spacial acuity I embody. One would hope to gain such insight in their lifetime.

- Unique dialogue for every NPC in a settlement isn't something I want to see Tamriel Rebuilt implement moving forward. For a project of our scale, the Less Generic NPC model is unsupportable, requiring far too much time to write, edit and manage that much dialogue. I've tried it before over at Skyrim: Home of the Nords and quite nearly drove myself insane coming up with enough dialogue for a small village. It also would make our lands inconsistent with the vanilla game. Bethesda deliberately made it so most NPCS you encounter on Vvardenfell are unremarkable. Having an "anonymous backdrop" of generic NPCs helps make the world feel populated without overwhelming the player with information. It helps them pick out who the important characters are from the faceless masses. Ultimately, players don't need to know the back story of every average-joe Dunmer walking around Balmora.

I understand, I was really just mainly speaking of him and his family, really. I want to really try and do some good Indoril dialogue moving forward, so getting a grasp on all the different angles of how they think and speak would really help.

Again, I greatly appreciate your dialogue contributions, Ironed Maidens. There's definitely a good chunk of useful stuff in your post. I simply think it needs fine-tuning to fit our project's lore and conventions. I do hope you don't take my massive list of feedback the wrong way. I don't mean to come across as judgmental or pretentious. I'm simply a bit overprotective when it comes to what dialogue makes it into our mod.

Of course, Yeti. I really would rather you scrutinize the work feverishly so I can churn out some really good stuff, so I appreciate the feedback and will begin rewriting it immediately. I also want to make sure only the best of the best of anything makes it into the mod.





Gnomey wrote:
Your entries for Ilvi certainly gave me some food for thought on characterizing Indoril, leading to some rather extensive notes:

"Roa Dyr: This city" - not a city; his abode. Generally called chapels.

Noted above. Again, a stupid oversight on my part.

"My Manor:" - I'm not sure if Indoril value subtlety as such. It's an interesting question. Discretion might work a little better. I don't think we should portray them as overly cautious; I'd rather say they are calculating, capable of lying in wait or taking bold action as necessary.

By digression I took it to mean how to calculate for the best time to make a move. Going into a battle with too much passion rarely yields favorable results. But I can try to tweak it a bit. Also to note is I think the 'armory' he is in right now could stand to be remodeled a bit to include a table or something with a map of the TRV on it. I think it would work better as a 'war room', where trophies of his battle accomplishments are in there and it also fits the Indoril character to use instruments of war to further propel tact and caution in his planning of how to keep the Hlaalu at bay. Also it would help him decide what towns/cities/holdings to fortify, as we spoke about basically the narrative of the TRV is the Indoril holdings will be fortified and ready for an ambush from the Hlaalu at any moment, and you can only chose so many holdings to fortify at one time, given time/resources needed. So just food for thought.

"every Dunmer household should have some fashion of worship in it" - I think this goes without saying; there is no separation between the mundane and spiritual realm, so you can't have a Dunmer household without worship. I'd rather say 'every Dunmer household should hold a space apart for the spirit alone', or something to that effect.

Good point. I'll rewrite it to be more in line with how the Indoril estates are.

I'm not sure if an Indoril wife would handle the lesser works of the estate, unless it's a particular hobby of Tavylu herself or something. They have servants and slaves for that, and I don't really think we want to portray the Indoril as chauvinistic, as that line seems to imply. Partners by marriage -- generally fellow Indoril -- are essentially equals, each likely having their own concerns and duties to attend to.

I meant the "lesser work" to mean more like dealing with paperwork or talking to not-so-important delegates or putting in supply orders. I don't know, tell me what I can do it make it seem better. As far as the Indoril men seeing their wives as equals....really? I mean would she be better characterized as being his main protege? Or the first person he would go to as far as deciding when to take a certain diplomatic action? I kind of want him to come across as the type of person who feels the need to 'teach' everyone in his life everything because he's the one who does it best. So his sons, daughter, and wife will all be basically guided by him in every action they do and every thought they have in life. Almost like he's a brainwasher, but he sees it as just upholding the Ways of Doctrine or something. I don't know, input would be appreciated.

Little Advice: I'm not sure if Dunmer could be said to believe in an afterlife, though that is fairly nebulous.

Well, yes and no. Maybe instead it could be reworded as "...more than a humble life or even an afterlife blessed with servitude."...? Something to hint at the fact that when you die you're either made into a bonewalker or conferred to the Ghostgate. Would they bereave their dead?

In general, I feel as though the entries read rather unnaturally. Always remember that this is supposed to be dialogue, not a design document; some outlander who may or may not be aquainted or related by marriage to Ilvi strikes up a conversation with him. I feel as though you're trying to put all information upfront when that's rather unnatural. If anything, I'd expect Ilvi to have separate entries for, for example, all of his family members, so that, specifically if the player asks, he will tell the player a little about them.

Hmmm, well the characteristics of the Indoril would make it seem that anyone and everyone, even a simple commoner living in a shack in the middle of nowhere, should already know of such things, so having a type of informational word vomit wouldn't/shouldn't be an issue as anyone should be able to keep up and provide a concise response. Also since he's made to be a bit mad and is also an Illuminated Elder, such a direct, to-the-tee response should be expected. But I'm not sure, it's up for debate though I don't mind the overly-winded dialogue. Especially since we know we're shooting for more of a story-telling perspective anyway with the gameplay, a narrative as such almost SHOULD feel unnatural, but to the Indoril it's simply idle chatter.

Morrowind's dialogue system becomes clumsy when you have longer entries, and I think that's intentional: despite Morrowind's vast quantity of text, its dialogue actually tends to be incredibly short and to the point. The specific information pertaining to a topic is provided, with only very subtle characterization. The characterization only really becomes more apparent when several entries are read together or you talk with different NPCs about the same person. So if you ask Ilvi about his chapel, he tells you about his chapel.

Same as above. Also, keep in mind like I said, these responses are intended for those already in House Indoril. I was expecting to actually write him and his sons dialogue responses basically being in disbelief that the PC was interred into the House...so let me know what I should do from here.
Post Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:00 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Ironed Maidens wrote:
By digression I took it to mean how to calculate for the best time to make a move. Going into a battle with too much passion rarely yields favorable results. But I can try to tweak it a bit. Also to note is I think the 'armory' he is in right now could stand to be remodeled a bit to include a table or something with a map of the TRV on it.
I frankly think we need to figure out how Indoril interiors as well as exteriors should look, and that existing interiors like Ilvi's residence may require a bit of remodelling once that is done. I have the general impression that, for lack of a better idea, developers have made Indoril manors relatively western in style, which may not really be ideal. But this is pretty off-topic.
Digression and tact seem like fitting words to me, it's specifically subtlety that I'm unsure about. Certain situations would call for subtlety, but others would call for overt action. I'd personally imagine that Indoril would see digression and tact as positive traits, but subtlety as very situational. Especially Ilvi, who's sort of rattling his sabres in the direction of House Hlaalu, would make a distinction there, I'd think.
Ironed Maidens wrote:
I meant the "lesser work" to mean more like dealing with paperwork or talking to not-so-important delegates or putting in supply orders. I don't know, tell me what I can do it make it seem better. As far as the Indoril men seeing their wives as equals....really? I mean would she be better characterized as being his main protege? Or the first person he would go to as far as deciding when to take a certain diplomatic action? I kind of want him to come across as the type of person who feels the need to 'teach' everyone in his life everything because he's the one who does it best. So his sons, daughter, and wife will all be basically guided by him in every action they do and every thought they have in life. Almost like he's a brainwasher, but he sees it as just upholding the Ways of Doctrine or something. I don't know, input would be appreciated.
Yeah, that's how I interpreted lesser work. As I said, Indoril would have servants for that kind of stuff; scribes, clerks, tollmer, ...
I'd imagine men and women would be fairly equal in Indoril society; either can control a chapel, either can be the head of a clan. Being Indoril, they're all really important, to the extent that essentially putting them into different classes would be meaningless. The distinction would be less between sexes and more between position, and as Ilvi is the lord of Roa Dyr he would indeed have higher standing than his wife, but they're still both Indoril, so the difference in standing would be negligible.
Indoril marriages are generally political, usually maintaining the bonds between the various minor Houses swallowed up by and political factions rising out of House Indoril. As the partner chosen to marry Draler Ilvi of Roa Dyr, Tavylu probably came from a clan of very high standing, even among the Indoril. (Though, again, 'very high' is relative). And such a high position comes with many responsibilities of its own, aside from the responsibilities Tavylu married into by essentially becoming one of the most powerful members of Ilvi's clan.
Tavylu would, as such, have her own matters to attend to, roughly comparable to Ilvi's workload. Of course that includes rituals and studies and gardening both metaphorical and literal, being socially active, attending to clan matters -- in her case both of her family and Ilvi's, and so on and so forth.
While I generally wouldn't encourage too much comparison to medieval Europe -- in this case not in the least because a very large distinction was made between sexes -- things weren't actually that different then: many queens were far too important to deal much with household affairs. Even the king had to be wary of their position; they were often political figures quite apart from the king, with quite a bit of agency and keeping their own correspondences. Henry VIII had to tread far more carefully around Catherine of Aragon than his other wives.
Ironed Maidens wrote:
Well, yes and no. Maybe instead it could be reworded as "...more than a humble life or even an afterlife blessed with servitude."...? Something to hint at the fact that when you die you're either made into a bonewalker or conferred to the Ghostgate. Would they bereave their dead?
The rewording works for me.
Bereave means deprive, so you just asked if the Indoril rob their dead. Razz They would mourn, but I don't think they would grieve as such. It would be more of a solemn passing from being an attentive agent of clan and Temple to being an attending spirit of clan and Temple. Privately and on an emotional level they probably would, though; because the spirit of the deceased will go to distant Necrom to fuel the Ghostfence leaving only ashes behind, because while they can commune in spirit they can no longer do so in the flesh, so to speak, and so on and so forth. Maybe compare to parents whose children move out of the house and go off to live in some distant place and never visit, only keeping contact through telecommunication.
Ironed Maidens wrote:
Hmmm, well the characteristics of the Indoril would make it seem that anyone and everyone, even a simple commoner living in a shack in the middle of nowhere, should already know of such things, so having a type of informational word vomit wouldn't/shouldn't be an issue as anyone should be able to keep up and provide a concise response. Also since he's made to be a bit mad and is also an Illuminated Elder, such a direct, to-the-tee response should be expected. But I'm not sure, it's up for debate though I don't mind the overly-winded dialogue. Especially since we know we're shooting for more of a story-telling perspective anyway with the gameplay, a narrative as such almost SHOULD feel unnatural, but to the Indoril it's simply idle chatter.
Yeah, there's certainly room for interpretation here. But your explanation seems to be to suggest the opposite: I agree that Indoril would assume everyone would already know about them, but I'd think that would lead to them saying less, rather than more.
If anything, I'd expect them to be a little cryptic, not directly answering the player's question -- as it's assumed the player already knows -- but instead trying to provide a deeper insight.
So if asked about, say, Indoril Gilse Ilvi, he might say something like "He has studied the seven-legs texts of Llothis-is-Law and is in the processing of increasing the tilt with which he reads the scriptures; I will be sure to perceive his Timsa-cuttings when I pay visit to his hearth-home, and I am sure they will provide her with comfort in our absence. Such an attentive student will benefit greatly from my guidance." without explaining that he is talking about Gilse's fiancé, or that she has a fiancé, or who she even is, or what the relation between the study of the seven-legs texts has to do with Timsa-cuttings.
That especially applies to Ilvi; other Indoril might be a bit more perceptive and provide the player with more direct information. There could also be a character who pumps the player full of basic information, but I don't think that really fits Ilvi, and again I still think the individual entries should be shorter and that the text should rather be split between several topics in such a case.
Post Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:13 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Updated text.

Quote:
Roa Dyr: This Chapel is the ever-watching eye for the Thirr River Valley. It is here that I stand guard for all of my people who wish to live the life the ALMSIVI have dreamed for us. The Hlaalu kinsmen and retainers to the west and south want to take control of this holy area for economical reasons. I will not lie, %pcclass, the Thirr River is an extremely important trade route, but it is also an extremely important part of Dunmer history, where the Exodus of Veloth battled the harsh currents and where our ancestors found true harmony with the nation of Morrowind. This is the main reason why I fight; for the preservation of our integral aura, the anima of our forefathers that still burns within all Dunmer. As long as Roa Dyr and my family survive, so will the Indoril.

My Manor: Yes, you are in my manor. Below us are the servant's quarters. I tend to matters in here, my war room. My youngest son, Danvas, is here to study how I work in the arts of subtlety, tact, and precise timing. Across the hall is the family temple; every Dunmer household should have a space dedicated to worship. My wife Tavylu is upstairs usually.

My middle son Llaren should be upstairs as well, divining principal and atoning in his Just fashion. Further down in the foyer my daughter Gilse can be found. She's preparing for the cohesion of our family and another Indoril noble family. In our absence I know she will be soothed as the house isn't garrulous, which is more than I can ask for. My eldest son...well, you should just speak to him. He's really quite something. There are other various retainers and our shrine priest who live here as well.

Danvas: Look for yourself. He's already much more defined than most Indoril nobles I know, and his cunning wit certainly settles well within the Gardens of Kwhoom-shal. With my guidance, he will be able to lead any army into the arms of victory just like I did.

Tavylu: She is my shadow, my light, and my solace. In her youth she had a gravitation towards the Order of Being and Resdayn's time line was her specialty. The Just and the Doctrine all fall within the Being, and the Temple has always steered our people in the right direction, just as they steered me towards her. These days she uses her extensive knowledge to help our Garden grow, to illuminate the dark waters of the Thirr, and she is also a commander of sorts of mine.

I have shown her my many Faces and she has loved every one of them with unparalleled devotion, and for that I am thankful. She many have some time to speak to you about her days of wisdom-chasing with the Thousand Feathers And Ninety-Four Corners House.

Llaren: He understands the odds that we face every day, but he knows only a fraction of how the Houses work. I would like to spend more time with him, teaching him how the geographic borders of our land are directly shaped by the political landscape, and not the other way around. However, recently I have been busier than I would like to elaborate on, dealing with many things both Hlaalu and non-Hlaalu related.

He is currently exercising his Just-Bonetending in his room daily, and the moons orbit his halo for that. One day he will know the difference between what truly divinely separates us from the Redoran or the Hlaalu or the Dres or the Telvanni; and that is the day his new rank in our House will come.

Gilse: She is beautiful, is she not %pcame? The joining of our hearths will be blessed by many finely tuned scathecraw wreaths. His treading in the scriptures of Llothis-Is-Law will certainly show acute Tisma-cuts that I cannot wait to gaze upon. I can still remember the day she was birthed, and how we cleaned her in the Dyruseraph Well in the foyer. How many pious days have passed since then is almost unbelievable.

Eldest Son: Really, just speak to him. It fills my heart with much middle-air, knowing he will someday place my shrine in this temple while he tends to the Gardens. His Bonetending is vast and proves he will rear a family well. His superior Velk-Augur-Tilling has impressed even a few on the Council of the Tapestries. I knew my teachings would grow within him, and his future is bright.

Little Advice: Live under the grace of ALMSIVI and you will be rewarded with more than a humble life or even a blessed afterlife. There are many abstruse and sinuous Walking Paths in the Temple, %pcname, and in understanding the bending of the shadows of patron saints and the walking Three one can garner a cognizant pulse of the physical world.

My rank in Great House Indoril has only been granted to me after countless hours of rumination about myself, my soul, my nation, and my nation's souls. After a homologous recognition from Almalexia herself, I am finally able grasp what the title of Illuminated Elder truly means. With hard discipline and swift meditation, %pcname, you may get a glimpse of the same spacial acuity I embody. One would hope to gain such insight in their lifetime.
Post Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:55 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I probably should have pointed this out sooner, but we haven't really set in stone personalities for Ilvi's various family members. We will probably discuss his family as part of a "Thirr River Valley planning" Skype meeting in the future. Of course, until then you're free to come up with possible characteristics for them, and we can take a look at those when the time comes.
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-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Post Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:16 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



We can cross that bridge when we get to it. Me and Gnomey discussed the Bonebiters as basically a sect of the Order of Being, so whatever works for the narrative. Does the dialogue sound better overall now, though?
Post Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Having finally recognized how cumbersome it is to update a forum post with revised dialogue, I've migrated the work to a Google Doc. To prevent unorganized editing, I've made it so only I can edit this particular document, though anyone with access to the above link can comment to their hearts content. Unless I messed up the permissions, in which case please let me know if you're having problems viewing the document. Roa Dyr dialogue has not been included yet.
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-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Post Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

My apologies for the delay, Ironed Maidens. Your dialogue definitely sounds better overall. I love the little references like Llothis-Is-Law and Velk-Augur-Tilling sprinkled in that give the impression of structured complexity to an Indoril's daily life. There are still some stylistic matters I'd like to iron out with them. Taking your first topic as an example, I would edit it into something along these lines (I've added annotations to explain some changes, though a few were made simply to shorten the passage to fit within Morrowind's 512 character limit):
Quote:
My Chapel is the ever-watching eye that protects the Thirr River Valley. [1] From here, [2] I stand guard over all who live the life Almsivi dreamed for them. [3] The Hlaalu kinsmen and retainers to the west and south wish only to gain a greater foothold in these lands for mercantile reasons. [4] To them, the Thirr River is merely a trade route. They don’t see the path through which the Exodus of Veloth battled the harsh currents, and first stepped into the Heartland of Resdayn. That is why I stand firm, %PCClass -- to preserve our integral aura, the essence of our forefathers that still burns within all Dunmer. [5]


[1] - I used an active verb here to reinforce the direct role Roa Dyr plays guarding the Thirr River Valley. Use these whenever possible - they invigorate sentences and and lend them more force. I also thought it made sense for Ilvi to refer to Roa Dyr as his direct possession.
[2] - As a general rule, avoid starting too many sentences with "it is." Instead, use a more tangible subject to give the first words of the sentence extra vividness.
[3] - I performed most of these word trimmings and substitutions to improve the sentence's flow. In general, I think Indoril lords would not group themselves together with the peasants they rule with a collective pronoun like "us." Having Ilvi refer to them as a distinct, separate group highlights the social stratification that separates the Indoril from their subjects.
[4] - I see the Hlaalu as the kind of people who slowly encroach on a rival's territory and undermine their authority, rather than directly seek to take it over in one swoop. I've rewritten Ilvi's dialogue here to reflect that, though I admit it comes down to my personal interpretation. Also, "economical" sounded too modern to me, though I admit my substitute is imperfect, since it's also the name of a player skill.
[5] - "Fight" sounded a bit too belligerent for a mainstream Indoril, even one as martial as Ilvi. Furthermore, the Indoril would never contemplate the need for their House to survive, hence why I removed the last sentence. To them, House Indoril is an everlasting pillar of the Dunmer nation -- Masser and Secunda would sooner fall from the sky before House Indoril would collapse politically.

My Manor - I'm not entirely sure we need a unique topic for this from Ilvi. Roa Dyr's "specific place" topic will likely cover the same information. Furthermore, having an Indoril say "every Dunmer household should have a space dedicated to worship" is akin to one of us saying "every house should have a door." Worship is such an inextricable part of Indoril life, I can't imagine Ilvi could even fathom a Dunmer home without a space dedicated to it.

I will endeavor to comment on the other topics at a latter time.

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-Head of NPCs: Skyrim: Home of the Nords
Post Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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