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NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Hey there, I just wanted to introduce myself.. My name is Joshuah and im from germany (so sorry for my bad english Wink Im new to this forum and to TR, but I have played Morrowind for AGES (and Oblivion, and Skyrim and a little bit arena and last but not least Daggerfall, but became desperate at dungeon crawling..).
I love the Idea of rebuilding the "missing" parts of my favourite game so I decided to support this project as best as I can - I think my place would be at Quest and NPC design (and I hope the results will be usable).
I think I will be posting some of my Ideas soon so BE PREPARED ;p
If someone has still questions or if I have forgotten something, simply ask

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Post Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:51 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
aRenfrow
Member
28 Feb 2015



Sorry, I don't have much to contribute, other than there is no reason to apologize for your English. If you had not said it was not your native language I would have not have known.
Post Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Biboran
Member
26 Sep 2014

Location: Russia

English is not a problem here Smile
I understand it well, but my grammar is very bad. Twelve times, slang, etc.
Post Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Okay, I thought Ill give you an example of what I mean with "Quests and NPC design"
Ive had some ideas about mainland imperial cult quests, especially about an NPC (quest giver) I have called "Marcus Antellius", an imperial healer who is an oracle(rank) of the imperial cult.

His history is as following (and can be read in his ->diary):
He is the son of a rich imperial merchant who had an excessive lifestyle and neglected his son.
At an early age Antellius used to hang around with thieves guild members and was skooma-addicted, until a mystic experience, a vision, changed his life. He saw himself lying on the ground of a prison cell, crying and praying to the gods to set him free from his chains. The vision ended with Julianos opening the door of the cell and freeing Antellius. This made him do penance for his sins and become monk in a Julianos-shrine, also not least to get away from his father.
In the following years he spent in that shrine Antellius managed to get over his skooma-addiction and got an education as healer from his Primate.
At the age of 21 an oracle spoke to him about a mission he is chosen for by Julianos. "Your place will be among dark-skinned mer, Marcus. They cry for awareness, but the ones who they pray to wont abandon it for them (expl.the tribunal). Fear not! Because the king of wisdom guides you in the name of the nine. Bring the truth to their tired minds and love to their crying hearts. But pay attention! At the highest point of success your own wisdom will be tested(expl.by Sheogorath, because logic-madness-opposite). Dont fail!"
So Marcus travelled to Morrowind with only the most necessary. Now, after two years (Yes, hes 23 Wink proselytizing Dunmer, he built up a small shrine for (Who do you think?) Julianos (right!) with a small discipleship.

The discipleship gets bigger the more quests are accomplished.

Marcu Antellius is the quest giver of the shrine he has founded (dont know yet in which town it shall be)
Early stage quests would be the following:
-distributing flyers
-talk to people and try to convince them to believe in the nine

Middle stage quests:
-theological discussions with high rank tribunal-temple members
-gathering artifacts (as usual Wink
-helping Antellius writing and spreading theological literature
-gathering theological literature (a Julianos-dedicated shrine looks prettiest with a large library i think)
-arbitrating in disputes between shrine members
-eliminating "heresy" (special persuasion that is against the canonical faith) by convincing the believers in question

End stage quests (the tragic end of a great missionary):
-killing high rank tribunal-temple-members
-killing cult-intern rivals of Marcus Antellius

At the very end Marcus Antellius tells the player that he had visions of Arkay who granted him eternal life and the status of the only true prophet of the nine in Tamriel (The test of wisdom, as mentioned in his prophecy, has been failed. Sheogorath had sent him that visions of arkay - Antellius wrongly believed them - and the result is madness) Now the player has the choice to either report him to the primate by stealing his diary and show it to the primate (which has the effect that Antellius is suspended from the cult, the player gets an permanent blessing by Julianos (increased magicka or sth) and Antellius position as leader of the shrine) or to help him get the position of the primate (which has the effect that Antellius gets instantly killed by the divines the moment he touches the real primate in order to kill him, the player gets an additional, very difficult quest "to repent" with a permanent curse which is cancelled when the quest is accomplished and also becomes the leader of the shrine).

Thats it for now. I hope I can contribute something to TR with stuff like that^^ otherwise just enjoy my writings and be inspired ;p

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?


Last edited by NathanJ on Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:34 pm; edited 3 times in total
Post Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
aRenfrow
Member
28 Feb 2015



Some of it seemed a bit cliche, but all and all I think it sounds very good.
Post Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:47 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Also, for the sake of clarity; Skooma isn't a liquid. It's a rock. Or a crystal. A shard. WHATEVER, it's basically a more pure form of Moon Sugar, which is the TES-equivalent of crack cocaine.
Post Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:53 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Hmm Im VERY sorry but (I have played the german translation) in Skyrim you hear for example the bandits say something like "oh, now a swig of skooma, only a little, of the imported", and many more little hints about drinking skooma (dont know all of them by heart). For example the redwater skooma in the redwater den in Dawnguard. You know, they say that they have some special skooma which is in fact the "blood" from the bloodspring - its definitely a liquid, and they can sell it as "special skooma" without counter questions from curious drug addicts.

I mean I know that skooma is made of refined moon sugar and because of the above ive thought it was a liquid. But question to you ironed maidens, from where exactly do you know this (its a crystal)? So which ingame-book, dialogue or whatever.
Okay, the only hint about "Skooma-crystals" I can think about is the Skooma-pipe. Thats a good point. But if the Skooma in Morrowind is a crystal, there is a paradox between Morrowind and Skyrim. OR Skooma can be found in both forms.

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Post Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:18 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Inconsistency between games. For the sake of TR we go with the fact that Skooma in MW is not a liquid and sload soap isn't any type of soap you'd want to bathe with...
Post Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:52 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Okay I didnt know this. I could imagine that this is gonna cause some confusion at gamers who come originally from later tes-games than morrowind (and no, i had begun with morrowind, but adopted the conviction that skooma is a liquid from skyrim - there is also "Double-Distilled Skooma", and only liquids can be distilled as far as I know)
Or "Skooma is an illegal narcotic drink..." from Uesp-wiki.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Skooma

Whatever, let me change this..

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Post Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:10 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
DestinedToDie
Developer
22 Feb 2014



Well, you can certainly heat a lot of stuff to the point where they become a liquid. And if skooma is a solid crystal, why put it in a bottle?

Anyway, your enthusiasm is lovely, but someone also needs to do all this work on the Construction Set.
Post Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:17 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



It's not a bottle it's a vial. Lots of drugs come in vials. Also, the UESP is fan-maintained, and as such it's subject to the same mis-labeling.
Post Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:05 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
aRenfrow
Member
28 Feb 2015



My problem with the whole "it i a crystal" argument is that it get brought up constantly here, but every time someone is asked where they get that information up they ignore the question, and now we're putting down information that says the opposite. Confirmation bias is detrimental.
Post Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Well to be completely honest I'm just coming from a real world perspective. You've got cocaine, crack cocaine, and then meth. All of which exhibit the same effects that Skooma and Moon Sugar give in-game, and all of which are bricked, powdered, sharded, etc etc. Just makes sense, tbh. There's a Skooma pipe for a reason, you SMOKE THE STUFF.
Post Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
DestinedToDie
Developer
22 Feb 2014



Edit: Nevermind.
Post Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:32 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



Isn't there an in-game book describing how skooma and moon sugar is made though?
Post Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:48 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
aRenfrow
Member
28 Feb 2015



I would like to say that just because something can be smoked doesn't mean that it tell us anything about it's state of matter. Liquids can be smoked just the same as solids can. See Vapor pens.
Post Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:37 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Inerestingly, in the house of caius cosades, who is a skooma-addict (he says he has a skooma-problem), you find moon sugar together with a skooma pipe. So at least moon sugar, in its raw form, can be powedered or something and then smoked, otherwise caius would have kept his money for skooma and not have bought raw moon sugar (who knows, maybe one day he had consumed everything and needed more quickly and didnt have the mony for real skooma, so he bought raw moon sugar instead.).
Yeah who knows, maybe im wrong with the skooma-is-a-liquid-idea, at least in morrowind (skyrim and oblivion is a different matter)
The only thing thats still disturbing me is that skooma comes in a bottle (vials mostly contain liquids as far as I know).
If Skooma is a powder or something like that, why doesnt it come in a bag or a box?

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Post Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:26 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



https://www.google.com/search?q=vial+of+cocaine&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=837&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIyPCCybHWxwIVCaWICh3akgQr
Post Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:44 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Okay, well, morrowind-skooma could really be powder. So far so good. I think Ill try gathering information on how skooma (in MW) is exactly produced from the raw sugar, cause there is still a gap. When I find nothing about that (which is possible, maybe the developers themselves didnt clear that point when they made the game) lets say its a powder.
By the way, i got an idea through that discussion: why not make a quest line that involves smuggling drugs, for example for the camonna tong?.

But to come back to the original posts, that marcus antellius-story, yes, I want to create that stuff with the construction kit (and I have already begun writing the dialogues for that quest line). But i have no construction kit, because I have the steam version of Morrowind. So I need a place to download it.. (I have begun playing MW after a 6 years pause and I had lost the original game, so...)

Secondly, I have problems with playing the current TR-release. The program tells me the morrowind-file isnt the right version. Nothing after the main menu works, I cant even see the intro-video with the quote of the underking. Call me a Newbie, but at the moment I dont have the energy for troubleshooting, so I hope you can help (oh and I have already used the morrowind code patch to expand the world map)

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Post Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Hi, its me again Very Happy
I had some work finished, and i didnt want to hold it back. hope you enjoy reading this^^
So this is my first quest for marcus antellius *-* - raw, written version (without CS, as you can see ;p)

I decided my questline to take place at andothren. I saw that very much has been discussed about this city, but I didnt read everything. So if anything collides with other stuff, Ill do something about that.

If you are no member of the cult yet, antellius asks you to join the cult.. as usual.
Otherwise, if you are member and talking to him the first time:

"Hello. Im Marcus Antellius, leader of this shrine. I havent seen you here before, what can I do for you? Are you here to *serve* the nine or are you just looking for our services?"

->serve
Hmm, lets see... Yes, I think you can carry out some tasks if you think you are able to. Like you have maybe already noticed, the faith of the people in this province is some kind of in a bad way. The tribunal, well.. lets say they dont meet the demands. I purpose to open the eyes of the people here in morrowind, and you will *assist* me with that. What do you say?

->assist
Exactly! Im glad you see that as I do. So let me tell you a little story first and then let you in on my plan.
Im a priest of Julianos, came to morrowind 2 years ago as preacher, healer and missionary, healed the sick, prayed for the anxious and reassured them, but as my main task I saw and see the mission of the dunmer in the name of the nine divines. The past 2 years I travelled from town to town to preach at the public places and I gathered a small discipleship. One day the effort of travelling around with this group became too big, and I had to settle down in this city.
As I did this, I decided to found a shrine in a building here, dedicated to julianos, the one who guided and guarded me all the time - This shrine you entered. So, this unfortunately means also, that I am resposible for the events here, that I have a certain tie to this place and cant go away for a few days or something like that - and at this point you come into play. Understood so far?
->Yes, go on.
Well. You are a good listener, I appreciate that. So my goal is: The conversion of the dunmer to the nine. What you do for me, you do for that goal. I can heal sick at this place, there are coming enough people in need, and for the really bad cases, well, for them there are Mara-priests. So, ready for the *first task*?

->first task
Well then, lets tackle this! Our first goal is to cover this town (Andothren), so that every inhabitant hears the holy word of the nine - beginning with the Dunmer of course. We are in hlaalu-territory, the people here are a little bit more open-minded, but be careful though. Mission that is too aggressive can backfire. On the journey through morrowind I have written a *flyer* that will hopefully serve our mission and let transcribed it. Take those samples, distribute them among dunmer in this town and come back to me.
Oh, and some general instructions for this and further tasks: I think its naturally that you read flyers and what you distribute yourself, but if someone has queries, answer them. Talk to the people.
(player gets 15 flyer called "nine gods, one faith")

--->The player runs into the BATTLEFIELD called andothren and speaks to random dunmer, asking them for the keyphrase (how do you call this??) *flyer*.
Answers:

The positive (take a flyer from you):

Dunmer 1:
"Oh, you have a flyer for me? from the imperial Cult? Thats... unexpected but thanks"
Dunmer 2:
"Does the cult promotion newly? However, if it gets you lucky, ill take it. Anyway I need something to light the fireplace.."
Dunmer 3:
"A flysheet eh? Come, give it to me. Hm, ah from the imperial cult. Yes, Ill read it when I get home (Do they ever get home in MW? Guess not...). Thank you."
Dunmer 4:
"How many of them did you distribute yet? Wait, I think I dont want to know. Thanks though."
Dunmer 5:
"You have to be really serious about this.. Yeah Well, Ill take it."
Dunmer 6:
"Oh my goodness, THEREFOR you are disturbing me? give it to me and leave me alone."
Dunmer 7:
"Hey, enchanted those can be used as Magical scrolls cant they? give it to me!"
Dunmer 8:
"You cant run around in big cities without being accosted by religious fanatics. Well. Then I take it. Hopefully youre lucky now."
Dunmer 9:
"I dont believe in the nine... but I know how it is to turn up at a priest and to admit that you have failed. And against this background... ...I accept it. So, now I dont want to hear nothing about that anymore."
Dunmer 10:
"sigh, for you ill except. Does that sound good to you?"
Dunmer 11:
"Oh wow, you saved my day! Not really.. But thanks though."
Dunmer 12:
"You come from that new Shrine? Ive heard about your cult but never dealt wih. Yes, I think I will read this, thank you."
Dunmer 13:
"I dont know what youre trying to achieve with actions like that. But I must admit that im curious about it, thank you."
Dunmer 14:
"Rare enough that someone gets something thats free of charge, even if its only a piece of paper, dont you think?"
Dunmer 15:
"I will read it before I go to bed, for sure."

The negative (dont take a flyer, Dunmer 1 is repeated at every non-quest-related dunmer, the second was just interesting, dont know where to put it):
Dunmer 1:
"The Cult? Bah, hypocrites and cowards! Keep your paper, (player race)"
Dunmer 2:
"The imperial cult, eh? What is the faith of a 400 years old nation against our immortal gods who carry us through history since thousands of years? Your Empire will collapse like every other one day, and its faith will be forgotten. The evidence of our faith resides in vivecs palace. Believe me, we dont need your gods."


When youre successfull (all flyers in the hands of dark elves) you return to Marcus Antellius. He tells you the following:

"Ah, the eager missionary returns. Glad you have done the assignment I gave. This was just the first step of a long way of ministation. But for now, take a little break. I have gathered some scrolls you may find useful, and if youre ready for some further ministration, just talk to me."

Reward:
The player gets 2 Charm-scrolls (sc_didalasknack) and
1 scroll of divine intervention. (sc_divineintervention)
(The first 2 Scrolls are for convincing people to believe in the nine and the third one is for if they rather worship daedra)


As you may see, my english is kinda limited (in german the whole thing sounds WAY better), leo was my best friend in this.

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Post Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Oh, and this is the flyer:

"Nine Gods, one faith

The great nation morrowind is a part of the empire, and ALMSIVI gave their blessing to that. They have decided in their wisdom to put their and your nation under the banner of Tiber septim, whom we worship as Talos, and this means the past and the future. And like the empire is the worldly working of the divine plan and the emperor is the defender of the faith, the nine divines call for repentance of sins and adopting the cult, which the empire, which is commissioned as patron of morrowind by ALMSIVI, stands for.

How can a man breathe air, if he doesnt honor the one who grants it?

How can a woman love her husband, if she doesnt honor the one, who makes her able to?

Now come, who is reading this, and listen to the word of the nine in the shrine of the imperial cult in your town."

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Post Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:21 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Stratus
Member
29 Mar 2014

Location: United States

NathanJ wrote:
Hi, its me again Very Happy
I had some work finished, and i didnt want to hold it back. hope you enjoy reading this^^
So this is my first quest for marcus antellius *-* - raw, written version (without CS, as you can see ;p)

I decided my questline to take place at andothren. I saw that very much has been discussed about this city, but I didnt read everything. So if anything collides with other stuff, Ill do something about that.



As you may see, my english is kinda limited (in german the whole thing sounds WAY better), leo was my best friend in this.




This is my first time posting here and I also enjoy making quests for the construction set. I think you have got a good start here. I'm sure you won't mind if I expose a few grammar/spelling errors and offer a little advice, right?

The areas where there are Grammar/spelling errors will be shown in bold, Suggestions will be underlined.



"Hello. I'm Marcus Antellius, leader1 of this shrine.

[Edited]:Hello. I am1 Marcus Antellius. I manage2 the shrine here in Androthen3.

1: I'm is more informal, I am would be more appropriate here.
2: Reason: The Imperial cult is different from the other factions in that they do not really have "Leaders" But rather have what you can call... taskgivers or overseers/managers.
3: It would be best to add the shrine location, being Androthen to add a little more "professionalism" to his greeting.

"I haven't seen you here before, what can I do for you?"1
1: Suggestion: Honestly, I think this part should be cut. The fact that Marcus Antellius has never seen the PC before is implied when he introduces himself.

Are you here to *serve* the nine or are you just looking for our services?1
1: Suggestion: The word: Services is another topic that the player can bring up. It would flow better if it was reworded this way:

[Edited] Are you ready to *serve* the nine or would you like me to tell you about our services?
Alternatively you could cut out the services part.

->serve
Spelling changes/grammar fixes

Hmm, lets see... Yes, I think you can carry out some tasks if you think you are able to. Like you have maybe already noticed, the faith of the people in this province is some kind of in a bad way. The tribunal, well.. lets say they dont meet the demands. I purpose to open the eyes of the people here in morrowind, and you will *assist* me with that. What do you say?



Fixed Paragraph:
Hmm, let's see... Yes, I think you can carry out some tasks if you think you are able to1. Like you maybe already noticed, the faith of the people in this province is some kind of in a bad way2. The tribunal, well.. Let's say they didn't meet the demands.3 I propose to open the eyes of the people here in Morrowind, and you will *assist* me with that. What do you say?4
Suggestions:

1. Suggestion: The first sentence is a little redundant. I think it should be made more direct and formal.
The fact that he directly asks the PC whether or not they want to serve implies that he already has something for the PC to do. He does not need to think about it. (If the player were to just select the topic "Serve" from the list it would be appropriate to make him think about it first.) However the word "Serve is put right in his greeting. This indicates that he already has something planned.

2. Reword: This sentence is very rough, I am just going to reword it.
I am sure you are aware of how little regard the citizens of this province have for the faith.

3. Cut this: Reason: The tribunal is completely separate from the imperial cult.

4. Reword: This is a pretty good sentence, a few parts are redundant however. I suggest Changing:
I propose to open the eyes of the people here in Morrowind,

TO

We need to find a way to open their eyes to the truth.

This part conflicts,: and you will *assist* me with that. What do you say?

Either do something like this:
Are you prepared to assist me in this endeavor?
^Choice "I am" 1, "Not yet" 2
Or
(Deleteperiod) and you will *aid me*.

->*aid me* OR "I am"
For the sake of time, I will reword this fixing grammar and spelling mistakes.

Good... I have a little story to tell before we begin. I am a priest of Julianos and I arrived to Morrowind two years ago. In the name of Julianos I have healed the sick, prayed for the anxious, and preached. Over time I came to realize how important it was to convert the Dunmer to the true gods, the nine.
cont.
I piously adopted this cause and began to travel from town to town spreading the faith and gathering disciples. Eventually I had gathered such a large group of disciples that I realized we could not continue traveling. so I decided to settle down in this town.
Cont.
I built this shrine and dedicated it to Julianos and as I am the overseer of this shrine there is no way I can continue my cause... This is where you come into play...
Cont.
My cause was to convert the Dunmer to the nine. Every task I have for you involves converting them. I can take care of all of the simple tasks here in Androthen but I need someone like you to go out and travel to the other cities to preach the faith. Do you understand what I am asking?
Yes
Wonderful, let me know when you are ready for your *first task*.

->First Task
To start, I need you to spread the word to every inhabitant here in Androthen- beginning with the dunmer. Because we are in Hlaalu territory the people here are more open minded. This does not mean that you shouldn't practice caution still... If you are too aggressive with your preaching you might end up in bad situations...
Cont.
I have written fliers for you to distribute among the inhabitants in this town. Return to me when you have distributed every single one.
Cont.
Oh and one more thing, You will need to read the fliers yourself as some of the citizens may ask questions.
(player gets 15 flyer called "nine gods, one faith")

--->The player runs into the BATTLEFIELD called andothren and speaks to random dunmer, asking them for the keyphrase (how do you call this??) *flyer*.1

1: Suggestion: This could either be done by creating a special greeting if
Item (FLier_ID) = 1
or a topic like (Spread the faith) or something.
(I would do both) Have the greeting display the topic.

FLierSending



My thoughts on this section:

Possible reactions, This is how I would order their responses:
A few dunmer should have guaranteed (Yes I'll take it) or NO I won't) in that they will always take the flier, or they never will.
The rest of the dunmer should have a Variant, I.E, They only take it IF: Disposition >50, or >40, or >70. you could also consider adding a small journal entry for every dunmer that takes it, If you were to do that you could do something like,
Dunmer A) Only accepts the Flier if Dunmer B) Also takes it.
This could be done by adding a Journal entry to Dunmer A) and adding a topic to Dunmer B that specifies (Journal, "Flier", = 65)

Overall the dunmer responses look great, good job. (I will do a few edits however.) I will also add suggestions to the requirements for each response.

Dunmer 1:
"Oh, you have a flier for me from the imperial Cult? That's unexpected but thanks, I'll take it."
SUGG: Attach to specific NPC Ids.

Dunmer 2:
"If only to make your life easier %PCName, I'll take it. I can use it to light my fireplace.
SUGG: Attach to Npcs that would ordinarily never accept it, Disp>70

Dunmer 3:
"A flier? Give it to me. Hmm... from the imperial cult. Yes, I'll read it when I get home (Do they ever get home in MW? Guess not...). Thank you."
SUGG: Outside only

Dunmer 4:
"Everyone knows what you have been up to %PCName. I will not take one of those dirty cult Fliers. Leave me." Goodbye
SUGG: IF Disp is low, and a journal marks that you have passed out a flier already.

Dunmer 5:
"You are clearly devoted to your work %PCName. I suppose I should give it a read."
SUGG: Only show this if the PC has managed to get the Flier into the hands of one who would ordinarily never take it.

Dunmer 6:
"If it will make you get out of my house, I'll take it. Now get out of my house Swit'!"
SUGG: Only if the Dunmer is in his home and if PC has already asked the dunmer.

Dunmer 7:
"Hey, can that flier be turned into a Magical scroll? give it to me!"
SUGG: IF Dunmer is class : Enchanter.

Dunmer 8:
"Looks like you can't even walk around the city without being accosted by foreign religious fanatics now. I hope you're happy. *He takes the flier*"
SUGG: Only if Dunmer is outside.

Dunmer 9:
"I don't believe in the nine... but I don't believe in turning down priests. You have too much on your plate."
SUGG: Specific priest class, or faction.

Dunmer 10:
"sigh, I'll take it %PCName, but only because I like you."
SUGG: High disposition

Dunmer 11:
"Oh wow, I see the truth now! The Nine Divines are real! Not really.. But thanks though."
SUGG: Certain npc.

Dunmer 12:
"You come from that new Shrine? I've heard about your cult but never dealt with it. Yes, I think I will read this, thank you."
SUGG: Certain Dunmer class/faction

Dunmer 13:
"I don't know what you're trying to achieve by passing those fliers around like that. But I must admit that you have got me curious, thank you."
SUGG: Commoner only

Dunmer 14:
"Now a days it is rare for someone to get something for free. Even if its only a piece of paper."
SUGG: A working class

Dunmer 15:
"I will read it before I go to bed %PCname."
SUGG: Noble

The negative (dont take a flyer, Dunmer 1 is repeated at every non-quest-related dunmer, the second was just interesting, dont know where to put it):

Dunmer 1:
"The Cult? Bah, hypocrites and cowards! Keep your paper, (player race)"
Dunmer 2:
"The imperial cult, eh? What is the faith of a 400 years old nation against our immortal gods who carry us through history since thousands of years? Your Empire will collapse like every other one day, and its faith will be forgotten. The evidence of our faith resides in vivecs palace. Believe me, we dont need your gods."
I would cut this. The imperial cult is actually ancient. The tribunal temple is the young faith. Instead I'm sure you could place another one, like...

Dunmer 2:
"I worship Vivec, almalexia and sotha sil. The only true gods."



A few thoughts on this, You put in that the dunmer may ask questions. these should be incorporated or cut. You also mentioned that the PC should excersize caution, there should be incidents where, If the PC keeps harassing a npc about taking the FLier, the Npc attacks him. (If the PC Kills the dunmer he will have failed the quest)



When you're successful (all flyers in the hands of dark elves) you return to Marcus Antellius. He tells you the following:

Another grammar fix.
"You have passed them all out? Well done. The beginning of a long line of work has begun, Take these scrolls and relax. Return to me when you are ready for the next task.."

Reward:
The player gets 2 Charm-scrolls (sc_didalasknack) and
1 scroll of divine intervention. (sc_divineintervention)
(The first 2 Scrolls are for convincing people to believe in the nine and the third one is for if they rather worship daedra)

I hope I helped a little.

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Post Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:39 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Stratus
Member
29 Mar 2014

Location: United States

Gonna doublepost, I hope that is alright.
To sum up my previous post, Here are all of the changes I have made,

It should look a little clearer here. My reason for the first post was to show all of the reasons for why I made those changes. If you don't like what I did just say so, no harm done.
______________________________________________________________
"Hello. I am Marcus Antellius. I manage the shrine here in Androthen. Are you ready to serve the nine or would you like me to tell you about our services?

Serve

I have important work for you %PCName. I am sure you are aware of how little regard the citizens of this province have for the faith. We need to open their eyes to the truth.
Are you prepared to assist me in this endeavor?

I am

Good... I have a little story to tell before we begin. I am a priest of Julianos and I arrived here in Morrowind two years ago. In the name of Julianos I have healed the sick, prayed for the anxious, and preached. Over time I came to realize how important it was to convert the Dunmer to the true gods, the nine.

Cont.

I piously adopted this cause and began to travel from town to town spreading the faith and gathering disciples. Eventually I had gathered such a large group of disciples that I realized we could no longer continue traveling. So we decided to settle down in this town.

Cont.

I built this shrine and dedicated it to Julianos. Unfortunately after I built the shrine I found out that I was unable to continue my cause... This is where you come into play...

Cont.

My cause was to convert the Dunmer to the nine. Every task I have for you involves converting them. I take care of all of the simple tasks here in Androthen but I need someone like you to go out and travel to the other cities to preach the faith. Do you understand what I am asking?

Yes

Wonderful, let me know when you are ready for your first task.

First Task

To start, I need you to spread the word to every inhabitant here in Androthen- beginning with the dunmer. Because we are in Hlaalu territory the people here are more open minded. However this does not mean that you shouldn't practice caution... If you are too aggressive with your preaching you might end up in bad situations...

Cont.

I have written fliers for you to distribute among the inhabitants in this town. Return to me when you have distributed every single one.

Cont.

Oh and one more thing, You will need to read the fliers yourself as some of the citizens may ask questions.

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Post Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:05 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Great, thanks for the help. I think I should clear some things, then edit the posts.

1. I know the word "services" is another keyphrase the player can bring up. Its brought up by NPCs in MANY cases like this in the vanilla game.

2. Antellius didnt expect the player at the shrine. So he has the question in mind what the player wants to do - and exactly this question he asks the player. The only things he can quickly think of are that wether he is willing to help with everyday business or is just there because he needs a cure for a disease or something. So he needs a little moment to remember his plan and which is the best place an unknown pilgrim who bursts into his shrine can take in it.

3. From Antellius perspective, the problem with the dunmers faith is that they believe the nine are not worthy of worship (thats every normal dunmer sais if asked about the nine divines, so thats commonly believed). That doesnt mean necessarily that they dont take the faith serious, because the tribunal IS worthy of worship and their "way of enlightment" is in its own way correct (as mentioned in "For my gods and emperor"). Can you come up with a phrase that is more like "They dont like my gods and thats not good for them (probably something bad will happen to them - this old "if you dont stay the right way, the gods will punish you"-thing without the "punish"-word spoken out loudly)" with a little aftertaste of antipathy for dark elves?

4. "the tribunal... lets say they dont meet the demands" This sentence reflects how little Antellius respects the faith of the dunmer - and the tribunal, the gods whose disciples refuse to worship the "right" gods, the gods of Antellius. In his mind is the tormenting question why the tribunal doesnt advocate the faith of the empire openly. Do you know the feeling when you come up with something you find completely awesome and people laugh at you and claim its only good for the garbage can? His feelings go a little bit in this direction. Okay, to get back to the sentence, when nobody listens, he talks openly like the tribunal consists of people like you and me who play the roles of gods.
Yes I know that the two religions has not much to do with each other, but in order to mission the "other side", you have to deal with it somehow. In this questline at least I plan to implement some kind of "interreligious dialogue", of course only to convince dunmer to believe in the nine.

5. The imperial Cult is an interpretation of a theoretic "whole-pantheon" of all aedra. The Altmer have own interpretations of this, though they worship some additional aedra, dont have some which are included in the imperial or worship akatosh as auri-el, the khajiit mix some aedra from this pantheon with daedra like Sheogorath ("Sheggorath") or Azura(h), and so on.
But the main thing that makes the Imperial Cult unique ist that it is IMPERIAL. It sais "The empire is the worldly working of the divine plan", worships its founder as the ninth divine, and this founder was Tiber Septim, the first emperor. So the Birthdate of the Imperial Cult is in my opinion the death of Tiber Septim - The Date when he became a god. And this is in 3E427 389 years ago.
So the Imperial cult is younger than the tribunal temple. Okay, even the question if an interpretation of a pantheon with strong unique influences make an entire new religion you can discuss. I think yes it is. But thats not important. Imporant is what the NPC who sais that sentence thinks Wink


But I appreciate any help with the english language (sigh..) Ill edit the post in the points I agree to and then I can write an overall picture of why I chose which things I didnt (if you are able to bear what comes out of my sick brain XDD).

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Post Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:49 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Stratus
Member
29 Mar 2014

Location: United States

NathanJ wrote:
Great, thanks for the help. I think I should clear some things, then edit the posts.



So the Birthdate of the Imperial Cult is in my opinion the death of Tiber Septim - The Date when he became a god. And this is in 3E427 389 years ago.
So the Imperial cult is younger than the tribunal temple. Okay, even the question of an interpretation of a pantheon with strong unique influences make an entire new religion you can discuss. I think yes it is. But thats not important. Imporant is what the NPC who sais that sentence thinks Wink


Good points. I would still argue however, that even though the Imperial Cult was "created more recently" the 8 Divines (other than tiber septim) are ancient. I personally think that the dunmer would be more likely to view the deities or gods behind the religion rather than when the "Imperial Cult" was founded. There also was a different variation of an "Imperial cult" before tiber septim.

Also, thanks for making those things clear, If you want me to continue helping you edit little mistakes, knowing those things will make it much easier.

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Post Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:07 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Stratus wrote:
If you want me to continue helping you edit little mistakes, knowing those things will make it much easier.


Yeah that would be great. I must admit, it was a lot of work to translate that stuff into english, and you see the result. I wish you could all understand german XDD

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Post Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:16 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Seneca37
Lead Developer
10 Feb 2014



First, great work Nathanj and Stratus. This is coming along quite nicely.

A couple of points to remember. The Dunmer, for the most part, are devout Tribunal worshippers. So, this should be a very very difficult task to complete, especially if limited to just the Dunmer.

Before the establishment of the Tribunal, the Dunmer were the Chimer and were ancestor and Aedra (Aedroth) worshippers (Azura, Boethiah, and Mephala). Aedra actually means ancestor http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aedra. They never worshipped the Eight Divines.

I personally like the snide refusals. I think they are funny. But, being Dunmer and devout Tribunal members, most would probably politely decline the note. The few who do take the paper should again be polite, but should infer that they really don't want it.
Post Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Okay, this is the edited version of the original flyer-distributing-quest.


-------------------------------------------------------------


Hi, its me again Very Happy
I had some work finished, and i didnt want to hold it back. hope you enjoy reading this^^
So this is my first quest for marcus antellius *-* - raw, written version (without CS, as you can see ;p)

I decided my questline to take place at andothren. I saw that very much has been discussed about this city, but I didnt read everything. So if anything collides with other stuff, Ill do something about that.

If you are no member of the cult yet, antellius asks you to join the cult.. as usual.
Otherwise, if you are member and talking to him the first time:

"Hello. I am Marcus Antellius. I manage the shrine here in Androthen. . I havent seen you here before, what can I do for you? Are you here because you want to *serve* the nine or would you like me to tell you about our services?"

->serve
Hmm, lets see... Yes, I think you can carry out some tasks if you think you are able to. I am sure that you are aware of that the the faith of the people in this province is some kind of in a bad way. I purpose to open the eyes of the people here in morrowind, and you will *aid me*. What do you say?

->aid me
Exactly! Im glad you see that as I do. So let me tell you a little story first and then let you in on my plan.
Im a priest of Julianos and I arrived to morrowind 2 years ago. In the name of Julianos I have healed the sick, prayed for the anxious, and preached. But as my main task I saw and see the mission of the dunmer in the name of the nine divines. The past 2 years I travelled from town to town to preach at the public places and eventually I had gathered such a large group of disciples that I realized we could not continue traveling. so I decided to settle down in this town.
When I did this, I decided to build a shrine here, dedicated to julianos, the one who guided and guarded me all the time - This shrine you entered. So, this unfortunately means also, that I am resposible for the events here, that I have a certain tie to this place and cant go away for a few days or something like that - and at this point you come into play. Understood so far?
->Yes, go on.
Well. You are a good listener, I appreciate that. So my goal is: The conversion of the dunmer to the nine. What you do for me, you do for that goal. I can heal sick at this place, there are coming enough people in need, and for the really bad cases, well, for them there are Mara-priests. So, ready for the *first task*?

->first task
Well then, lets tackle this! Our first goal is to cover this town (Andothren), so that every inhabitant hears the holy word of the nine - beginning with the Dunmer of course. We are in hlaalu-territory, the people here are a little bit more open-minded, but this does not mean that you shouldn't practice caution still... If you are too aggressive with your preaching you might end up in bad situations... Believe me, I know what Im talking about.
On the journey through morrowind I have written a *flyer* that will hopefully serve our mission and let transcribed it. Take those samples, distribute them among dunmer in this town and come back to me.
Oh, and some general instructions for this and further tasks: I think its naturally that you read flyers and what you distribute yourself, but if someone has queries, answer them. Talk to the people.
(player gets 15 flyer called "nine gods, one faith")

--->The player runs into the BATTLEFIELD called andothren and speaks to random dunmer, asking them for the keyphrase (how do you call this??) *flyer*.
Answers:

The positive (take a flyer from you):

Dunmer 1:
"Oh, you have a flier for me from the imperial Cult? That's unexpected but thanks, I'll take it."
SUGG: Attach to specific NPC Ids.

Dunmer 2:
"Does the cult promotion newly? However, If only to make your life easier %PCName, I'll take it. I still needed something to light the fireplace.."
SUGG: Attach to Npcs that would ordinarily never accept it, Disp>70
->I like that fireplace one ;P

Dunmer 3:
"A flier? Give it to me. Hmm... from the imperial cult. Yes, I'll read it when I get home (Do they ever get home in MW? Guess not...). Thank you."
SUGG: Outside only

Dunmer 4:
"This is from the cult you say? Interesting, yes, I will read it, thank you"

Dunmer 4,5(from Stratus, doesnt take the flier IF Disp is low, and a journal marks that you have passed out a flier already):
"Everyone knows what you have been up to %PCName. I will not take one of those dirty cult Fliers. Leave me."
Goodbye

Dunmer 5:
"You are clearly devoted to your work %PCName. I suppose I should give it a read."
SUGG: Only show this if the PC has managed to get the Flier into the hands of one who would ordinarily never take it.

Dunmer 6:
"Oh my goodness, THEREFOR you are disturbing me? give it to me and leave me alone."

Dunmer 6,5 (from Stratus, I like that and the original one.. couldnt decide which I like better)
"If it will make you get out of my house, I'll take it. Now get out of my house Swit'!"
SUGG: Only if the Dunmer is in his home and if PC has already asked the dunmer.

Dunmer 7:
"Hey, can that flier be turned into a Magical scroll? give it to me!"
SUGG: IF Dunmer is class : Enchanter.

Dunmer 8:
"Looks like you can't even walk around the city without being accosted by foreign religious fanatics now. I hope you're happy. *He takes the flier*"
SUGG: Only if Dunmer is outside.

Dunmer 9:
"I dont believe in the nine... but I know what it feels like to turn up at a priest and to admit that you have failed. And against this background... ...I accept it. So, now I dont want to hear nothing about that anymore."

Dunmer 9,5(by Stratus, the shorter version):
"I don't believe in the nine... but I don't believe in turning down priests. You have too much on your plate."
SUGG: Specific priest class, or faction.

Dunmer 10:
"sigh, I'll take it %PCName, but only because I like you."
SUGG: High disposition

Dunmer 11:
"Oh wow, I see the truth now! The Nine Divines are real! Not really.. But thanks though."
SUGG: Certain npc.

Dunmer 12:
"You come from that new Shrine? I've heard about your cult but never dealt with it. Yes, I think I will read this, thank you."
SUGG: Certain Dunmer class/faction

Dunmer 13:
"I don't know what you're trying to achieve by passing those fliers around like that. But I must admit that you have got me curious, thank you."
SUGG: Commoner only

Dunmer 14:
"Now a days it is rare for someone to get something for free. Even if its only a piece of paper."
SUGG: A working class

Dunmer 15:
"I will read it before I go to bed %PCname."
SUGG: Noble

The negative (dont take a flyer, Dunmer 1 is repeated at every non-quest-related dunmer, the second was just interesting, dont know where to put it):
Dunmer 1:
"The Cult? Bah, hypocrites and cowards! Keep your paper, (player race)"

Dunmer 2:
"The imperial cult, eh? What is the faith of a 400 years old nation against our immortal gods who carry us through history since thousands of years? Your Empire will collapse like every other one day, and its faith will be forgotten. The evidence of our faith resides in vivecs palace. Believe me, we dont need your gods."

Dunmer 2,5(by Stratus, short and clearly):
"I worship Vivec, almalexia and sotha sil. The only true gods."


When youre successfull (all flyers in the hands of dark elves) you return to Marcus Antellius. He tells you the following:

"Ah, the eager missionary returns. Glad you have done the assignment I gave. Well done. The beginning of a long line of work has begun, Take these scrolls and relax. Return to me when you are ready for the next task.."

Reward:
The player gets 2 Charm-scrolls (sc_didalasknack) and
1 scroll of divine intervention. (sc_divineintervention)
(The first 2 Scrolls are for convincing people to believe in the nine and the third one is for if they rather worship daedra)


As you may see, my english is kinda limited (in german the whole thing sounds WAY better), leo was my best friend in this.

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Post Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:38 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



My goodness Im writing a lot.. Thank you seneca37 for the feedback and reminding us of some things. Emm I just wanted to describe my thoughts about the role of this questline in whole MW, just for better integration.

However, I think we need a masterplan for the IC and the faction-questlines.

First of all, the Cult is a faction that represents the empire in Morrowind (like the guilds and the legion). Their actions redound directly upon the empire. The empire is interested in being the whole tamriel, because of the peace this status quo brings to all of its inhabitants. This also means, the relationship between the empire and the imperial province of morrowind must not be harmed by any action from imperial factions such as the Cult.

"The missionary arm of the great faiths, the Imperial cult brings divine inspiration and consolation to the Empire's remote provinces" (for my gods and emperor)
This means in my opinion that the Cult is in his self-conception a missionary cult which spreads its faith to nonbelievers.

So here is the problem: The Cult tries to spread its faith among all inhabitants of the empire - who partly dont wish to convert, like many dunmer in morrowind.
THIS is the place of Antellius, a missionary of the IC in morrowind.



So next comes a short forecast on missionaring the great houses

Because Andothren is a hlaalu-governed city and is a place where many travellers and merchants come through (port), the overall climate should be very open-minded and liberal. That makes it possible to preach relatively openly a "strange" faith without consequences. Its pretty similar in other hlaalu-governed cities I think.

Another matter it will be when the player gets to spread the faith in the redoran north. I think its not advisable to do those actions there, so Ill have to find a more subtile way the cult can influence the faith in that territory, and even then the results should be few.

In Indoril territory its almost impossible to convert people. Quests like this first one would be suicide, and Antellius may be a fanatic, but not stupid. I have the Idea of one or two nobles who contacted the cult anonymously to get more information about that faith, and the player has to represent it and to go to a secret meeting with them.

With house dres its very similar as with house indoril.

The Telvanni may take offense if missioned too aggressively, but more than with the other houses its a matter of the single individual. Aryon and divayth Fyr are far more open-minded then dratha or neloth.




I had some vague ideas about how the temple reacts to the actions of antellius and the player too. Thats the point on which it becomes really interesting, and it may be the most important.


Oh, and Azura, boethiah and Mephala are daedra (see the ingame book "the book of daedra"). I know that the legend sais boethiah is the ancestor of the dark elves. But if he is not a daedra, why could he eat an aedra (trinimac) and turn him to a (half-)daedra (Malacath - I know the singular is daedroth and aedroth but thats an old habit of mine)^^

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Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?


Last edited by NathanJ on Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Post Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
DestinedToDie
Developer
22 Feb 2014



Nice to see all of your enthusiasm Nathan. I'm not really a proper TR developer myself (ignore the developer title), but I think what you need right now is to do even just a little bit of this in the construction set.

For me writing this stuff is heaven, but work in the Construction Set is kind of different. Even if you can't get TR to work for some reason at the moment, download CS and try your hand by placing this Antellius NPC, adding some dialogue for him and maybe a few journal entries as well.
Post Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



@DestinedToDie Yes I agree. Hopefully I finally find a place where I can download it. But I also need to get the current TR-release to work, cause when Im placing something somewhere its better to play the actual scene in order to discover what it needs to feel authentic

edit: I have downloaded the CS

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Post Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Hi there, heres the status:

I have built the andothren-shrine in the CS (without door - my first interior *-*) you get there through coc "andothren_julianos_shrine".

I still have NOT included any NPC because the german dialogue topics collide with the english. Therefor I couldnt play the current TR-release, problem was nearly solved when I downloaded an alternate MW-masterfile (which was modified in a way I have forgotten, some bugfixes or something like that, but fortunately it was in english) - i can run around in TR normally, but every object is there twice??. However, I probably could use your help with getting the english files of the addons (should be legal, since I have purchased the german goty-edition via steam?) pleeease ^-^ - edit: nevermind, now I have them.



andothren_julianos_shrine.ESP
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 Filename:  andothren_julianos_shrine.ESP
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Post Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:56 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Elavion
Developer
11 May 2014

Location: Poland

I'd just like to point out that on steam you can change the language of your game Smile
Post Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:09 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



update: Ive built a little Julianos-shrine-interior together with the Antellius NPC and 3 of his followers. The shrine is 90 percent finished and I still have to implement some dialogue (though I still havent fully understood how those functions/scripts and so on work in deciding which specific answer an NPC gives to a certain topic).

My plan is the following:
-Marcus has his own opinion about every deity.
-every follower has his own thoughts about Marcus

I have some Ideas how each follower of Marcus is characterized.

The name of the cell is "AndothrenJulianosShrine"



andothren-julianos-shrine.ESP
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Post Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:22 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Hi there, Ive planned a new quest taking place in that interior I posted last (german dialogues are finished).. I know its a bit late to ask that question, but shall I continue working on this Marcus-Antellius-thing for TR?
Because Im a little insecure if me contributing like this is "desired" Wink. would be cool if someone of the lead developers can tell me wether this is ok and gonna be used when finished and of high quality or if I rather should do something else or so^^.

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Post Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:20 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Hi guys, sorry Ive waited so long with this, but with this topic I finally officially promote myself for interior developper. Apart from this I think I will "release" quest ideas and other stuff coming out of my sick mind regularly and let this topic be my little playground ;p. I hope you appreciate what will come from me. Have fun!

Name of the cell in the showcase esp is "Imperial House"



ShowcaseInterior.ESP
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Post Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Ahem, door fix


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Post Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Hello NathanJ! It's great to see you post a showcase. One of our developers will be around to take a look at it shortly (I'm unfortunately preoccupied at the moment, but I might get a chance to look it over when I get home from work).
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Post Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:58 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I'm very sorry for my delay in replying to this; I generally like to take my time when replying to literary contributions, and time is unfortunately something I haven't had too much of in the last little while.

I'd actually thought I had replied to this earlier, on the topic of Skooma, but apparently I hadn't, perhaps for the best as that conversation did derail the topic for a bit. (Ironed Maidens does seem to be correct in that up until -- and including -- Morrowind Skooma seems to have been treated as a crystal, but it's only implied, not stated directly. Read heavily between the lines and squint a little and it seems likelier than Skooma being a liquid. A little. With such ambiguity, it would be no wonder if a Bethesda writer at some point assumed it was a liquid and nobody really knew to say otherwise. It would hardly be the most egregious case of inconsistent lore).

The Imperial Cult questline is a rather big deal, and what you suggest would have a really high impact. As such, I'm not sure if it could be incorporated in that form. The impact would either have to be lowered, (Antellius is stopped before things really get out of hand), or expanded -- in the case we actually were to want to make this a major plotline of the Imperial cult -- to have a larger scope.

I do certainly like the general idea for the questline of handing out flyers, though, as well as the dialogue responses, and think the general concept for the early questline could potentially work very well for Andothren.
However, Andothren is not as open-minded as it may seem to outlanders, which goes for Hlaalu in general: Hlaalu will generally act open, but will hold their actual beliefs close to themselves, and won't budge easily. They just try to gloss that over so that it's not as apparent, so for example they would generally accept flyers if offered, but would just toss them in a corner when they come home and forget about them.
Unless they think there is an advantage to being perceived as faithful to the Nine Divines, or -- as should still naturally happen, though rare -- they happen to actually be open to new ideas.
Moreover, Andothren's population is in no way homogeneous: you have the Hlaalu, who would generally act as above; the rich outlander fatcats and other outlanders, who would generally worship the Nine Divines in some form anyway; the Velothi near the Temple, who would generally be very resistant to attempted conversions; Camonna Tong and dirt-poor Dunmer, by the harbour, who would generally be hostile though some of the latter might by swayed, especially if they saw an advantage for themselves in worshiping the nine divines; a small population of displaced Ashlanders, who would generally be hostile to the Imperial Cult, though not necessarily always, (some may have abandoned their old ways and would be susceptible to new ideas); and perhaps some slaves, generally out of sight, generally Khajiit, who could perhaps be converted, especially if they were freed. I think that about covers it...
That's specifically why quests like these would work well for Andothren: it's such a minefield and the player either needs to be lucky, perceptive or keep to the right places.
In Andothren in particular there are a lot of Hlaalu upstarts, and some would try and get the support of the Camonna Tong, others of the Imperials, and probably the majority would try to juggle them with greater or lesser success. Those trying to get on the good side of the Empire would react especially favourably, at least outwardly, while those trying to get on the good side of the Camonna Tong would react especially harshly, though still not violently.

A few notes on lore:
-a member of the Imperial cult wouldn't write 'ALMSIVI' with very few exceptions. They are the Tribunal, at best, or might be referred to in any number of very roundabout, more-or-less diplomatic ways. (The heathen devils of this accursed patch of ash, the so-called living gods of the province's peculiar local religion, the three enigmatic figures worshiped by the people of Morrowind...)
-you're right about the Imperial cult; it was probably created around the time of Tiber Septim, if not more recently. It is however a cult, and not a faith as such; members of the Imperial cult worship the Nine Divines, a faith which is older than the Tribunal, though by less than five-hundred years. The Aedra themselves are, of course, much, much older than the Tribunal.
While a little dubious on the lore front, one has to keep in mind that the vast majority of people on Tamriel aren't theologians, and would be very ignorant about a lot of aspects of their own faith, let alone a foreign faith. I think the line works as-is, but should generally only be spoken by (it sounds so classist to say this...) ignorant commoner types.
-Azura, Boethiah and Mephala are Daedra, not Aedra. The confusion comes about because, as opposed to the typical translation of Aedra=our ancestors and Daedra=not our ancestors, an alternate translation exists:
Michael Kirkbride wrote:
And, finally, Daedra is EITHER DAY-druh OR DEE-druh, depending upon your inclination. DEE-druh is the Dunmeri preference and, since they made up the word, will be more acceptable come TESIII. Means 'Our Stronger, Better Ancestors.'
The Chimer only ever worshiped the Daedra, pretty much by definition, as that's what differentiated them from the Aldmer. The Aldmer did not worship the Nine Divines, who did not then exist as such, but did worship the same figures in a different guise, save for Lorkhan/Talos, who they despised/didn't exist yet. So Aldmer did worship Aedra, and as such, if you went far back enough, though not too far, you'd have Dunmer ancestors who worshiped Aedra but were neither Dunmer nor Chimer. That was a mouthful.
-"The evidence of our faith resides in vivecs palace." At first, it seemed odd for a citizen of Andothren to mention Vivec in his palace in particular as opposed to Almalexia, but Andothren is pretty close to Vivec; it might be a good idea to make that more explicit. ("The evidence of our faith resides a short boat ride from here in the Palace of Vivec. Why should I need your distant gods in the Imperial City or behind Oblivion or wherever they hide?")
-Redoran probably wouldn't be hostile to Imperial Cult preachers, for the most part, they just really, really wouldn't care. Trying to convert them to the Imperial Cult would be like trying to sell anti-aging cream to a child.
Indoril also would probably not attack the player for trying to preach, unless you count verbal abuse; they might blast a flurry of theological arguments supporting the Tribunal and denouncing the Aedra your way.
Dres might attack, more because you're a bother than because you offend their faith. (Or rather, your presence rather than your words offend their faith, your words just convince them that they'd rather deal with you rather than leave you to chatter away).
Telvanni might react like the Dres or might find it amusing or might flat-out ignore the player, depending on their personality and mood, but they're generally too convinced in their own superiority to bother about the Tribunal, let alone a gaggle of inferior ancestors that died off eons ago after getting conned.
What's worth remembering though is that most Dunmer are not affiliated with a House. They -- the Velothi class -- would generally be faithful to the Temple, but -- being one of the major themes of Morrowind -- they are starting to develop doubts, (only very minor ones at the start of the game), that very skillful players might be able to exploit.

Moving on to your showcase in general: first of all, would it be alright with you if I merged this thread with your other one? This is really already a showcase thread, and for better oversight we generally prefer if each member only has one.
Second of all, we make a distinction between writing quests and implementing quests. You can be promoted for either, but in the former case you start writing right away and get promoted afterwards based on your contributions, (in other words you don't really need to be promoted to write quests, but we will promote you anyway based on your contributions), while in the latter case you have to go through the showcase process first, get promoted, and then you can start implementing quests. (Though if your quest showcase is a misc quests and fits into our general vision it might be incorporated into the mod).
Post Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:00 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
NathanJ
Member
30 Aug 2015



Hey guys! First of all thank you Gnomey for taking the time to reply as extensive like this, I really appreciate that!
I will try to adapt the antellius-questline to what youve written as nearly as possible. Over and above, If anything coming from me is not fitting into lore or the plans of TR, just point it, I will change it.
So my new plan would be the following:

The questline is just a sequence of lesser to mid-important (is there a word like "mid important"?) quests that dont change anything important in places, politics and so on. The purpose is more to simply introduce the shrine, Antellius and his fellowship to the player and by doing this it adds a certain flavour to Andothren and the imperial cult, for which as a whole I have some further ideas, but first things first.



Apart from that I characterize the whole thing as a little religious "cell" at the threshold to a sect with a charismatic leader (Antellius) who exerts strong influence on every part of the faith and lifestyle of his followers. His followers trust in Antellius almost endlessly, they even gave up their homes and most of their property to follow him through morrowind. He and his followers have a really special relationship, hard to explain, look at the quests to come and you will understand Very HappyD.

The shrine has some special strategies in converting "unbelievers". I have stolen those from jehovas witnesses and I also know necessarily (I dont like it too) many myself, because I have always been calling myself a born again christian and I had to do with that stuff countless times. I know, religious talk is forbidden here with good cause, though in this special case I thought it illustrates it well. One of those strategies is the use of the phrase "ALMSIVI". The "target" believes in the tribunal, so that guy likes it if such a phrase is used while talking about his gods, because it expresses respect. That leads to more open-mindedness towards the writer of the flyer. This strongly works with subconsciousness, but believe me, it works.

And yes, as from now I want to use my other thread exclusively Smile

_________________
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Post Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:04 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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