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Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

I think it's time to make a dedicated thread for this; mostly because Ateiggaer finally got me drawing again and I don't want to clutter his thread with my art, but also because I think the discussion has picked up enough to warrant it. This is a continuation of the discussion on Indoril clothing in the Ateiggaer's concept art thread, so reading that thread first would be a good idea if you haven't already.

Ateiggaer has posted the following concepts so far, which have been discussed in that thread:
http://ateiggaer.deviantart.com/art/Indoril-clothing-01-568667781?ga_submit_new=10%253A1445968579
http://ateiggaer.deviantart.com/art/Indoril-nobles-568890070?ga_submit_new=10%253A1446068262
http://ateiggaer.deviantart.com/art/Indoril-women-01-570039626?ga_submit_new=10%253A1446569435
http://ateiggaer.deviantart.com/art/Indoril-folks-01-570265075?ga_submit_new=10%253A1446670942&ga_type=edit&ga_changes=1&ga_recent=1
http://ateiggaer.deviantart.com/art/Indoril-folks-02-570428844

Working off of those ideas, I drew the following concept, which for the heck of it I present in three versions:



The picture shows an Indoril, probably a young Indoril fulfilling his duty as itinerant judge and adviser. He wears fairly humble travelling clothes without a robe, which would generally also be worn. (Let's go with Ateiggaer's nix-hound pattern robe; the robe would go under the collar and pauldrons and possibly under the sort of waist wrap. If the waist wrap goes under the robe, the top of it would still protrude out of the collar and behind the head as shown).

Going through my ideas:
-I tried to see if I could keep the look of the flared pants from Ateiggaer's concepts while including gaiters. The pencil sketch shows a more accurate side view; the pants wouldn't hang out a lot in front.
-the clothing is all textile; I figured chitin and bonemold and leather would appear too martial. (They'd have that stuff as well, but only for actual combat).
-rather than keep completely to geometrical forms, I wanted to try out some more organic forms inspired by chitin shells, specifically the gaiters, waist wrap, pauldrons and hat. They would probably be made out of a fairly stiff material like felt.
-I added a bunch of bling.
-the collar and crest of the helm are supposed to suggest a sort of halo around the Indoril's head, drawing focus to it, which is something I'd imagine Indoril would like to do. They look cruder than they should.
-I tried out a slashed sleeve look; I figured a lot of Indoril lands would probably be rather humid, so I tried to keep the outfit relatively well ventilated. The shirt should probably have a subtle pattern, like the extravagant Indoril shirts currently in TR_Data.
Post Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:52 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ateiggaer
Member
18 Apr 2015

Location: Switzerland, the land of chocolate and cheese

Hey Gnomey I love it! Glad I got you drawing again! Wink

The helmet/hat really reminds me some sort of the egyptian pahrao-helmets
which obviously, in the case of MW, is always a good thing. Not so sure about the wais wrap, although it's an interesting concept, it seems to me that's something that would be more a woman thing, as it looks like some sort of corsett. The Idea with the slashed sleeves is also very good, some references could also be the berber tribes , which also wear a lot of clothes but very lose.
I love the gaiters and the baggytrousers. Also like the Idea of the halo around the head, again egyptian influences but with coverage of the ears could look very cool.

Also I wanted to say, that I woudn't mind, if you posted your art in my thread, or if I should post also stuff here in the future, I love the back and forth and the visual communication, also you should post more of your stuff. Really like the way the hands are drawn, almost looks like a saint. Smile
Post Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:47 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

The helmet was a sort of mix of inspirations; there's some Tibetan and Chinese in there as well. Incidentally, something like this hat would be right at home in Morrowind, I think.
For the waist wrap, I was trying to go for a bugshell aesthetic like these ones, (97 for the last image), but I do think I need to work out the shape a bit more.

And yeah, I deliberately used a sort of saint posture. The sign of the Trinity naturally carries over to the Tribunal quite nicely.
Post Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
EJRS
Developer
14 Aug 2013



I really like this is general, and the waist-wrap in particular.
It feels properly alien, perhaps for the same reasons Ateiggaer disliked it for: it doesn't come from our own traditional concepts of body ideals.
Post Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ateiggaer
Member
18 Apr 2015

Location: Switzerland, the land of chocolate and cheese

I'm not entirely against it, for the same reason, that it feels alien/weird. Maybe you're right and our different reactions just show that Gnomey is onto something.

Also on the topic of bugshell aesthetics, could one say, that Indoril prefer to imitate certain parts of bugs with textiles, rather than wearing real bugshells, like maybe other factions like the Ashlanders or Telvanni would?
Post Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Ateiggaer wrote:
Also on the topic of bugshell aesthetics, could one say, that Indoril prefer to imitate certain parts of bugs with textiles, rather than wearing real bugshells, like maybe other factions like the Ashlanders or Telvanni would?
Yeah, that's sort of the direction I'm going for.
Post Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:24 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
st.Veloth, The Repenting
Member
28 Feb 2015

Location: toronto

having ceremonial and formal distinctions are quite important. such as the ceremonial beetle armor is used for house meetings and the robes-with-japanese-indoril-influence are used during temple practices.

having a division as in what are house duties and temple duties would be neat, having the player perform both.

_________________
almsivi bless, to create one must first destroy, the nature of all, is in equilibrium
- sotha sil
Post Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:11 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

My second clothing set concept, along with a few practical notes on implementation:



Notes on the concept:
-I think the back flaps look best if they widen out further up, as is the case with the male front view, so that they make the Indoril look a little larger. Basically this principle.
-the shoes in this case are fairly simple; basically like these in general form. I might see if I can't make them a little fancier.
-the tiny hat on the male figure is functionally part of the hair body part. It is kept from falling by wrapping the hair around its base, and it may itself contain the ends of the hair. As such, it's a male style designed for wearing hair very long, much like Sikh turbans.
-a side view is not shown. The strip of cloth that rises from the female figure's robe needs to be formed so that the hair accessories won't clip when the head turns, so either made narrow enough, low enough, or far back enough, or some combination thereof.
-I was thinking women could have tattoos on the back of the head right above the neck. The hair nearest the neck might be shaved off accordingly to provide more space for the tattoos. If done right, I'm hoping it could at least imply body tattoos.
-I think by default Indoril heads and hairstyles should not be playable. Some Indoril would wear fancy hats instead of fancy hairstyles, and Indoril players would have to go that route. It would be a trivial edit to make them playable, and it wouldn't make sense for us to allow players to wear one of these hairstyles fresh off the boat.
-the shoulder flaps would be associated with the upper arm, and need to stick out enough that they won't clip with the lower arm. The cloth strip and back flaps, however, are associated with the chest.

General notes:
-open necklines aren't really possible; the closest one can get is to have the main clothing over some sort of thin under-tunic. Same goes for slashed sleeves and such. The Shoes of St. Rilms ignore the issue, being integrated with a Dunmer woman's foot, but I don't really think that's an elegant solution. (And I apologize for any cannot-be-unseen for people who didn't notice that).
-the gaiters need to either be associated with the feet or the ankles. Whichever they are associated with, they will tend to clash with the other. If associated with the feet, they probably shouldn't go too high up and should be pretty close-fitting, as in this image, considering that pantlegs end in a variety of shapes and sizes. It may be safer to associate them with the ankles, which Morrowind seems to do already with similar forms (see the exquisite pants and Ordinator boots, for instance), but then they naturally can't go too far down for fear of clipping with the feet. There may however be ways to divide the gaiters over both body parts, though, as well; with close-fitting gaiters that would be quite easy, whereas looser designs will require more thought. For that solution to work, though, the feet and ankles need to be part of the same clothing, so probably the shoe. Morrowind doesn't really have a precedent for shoes taking up the ankle slot, but I don't think we need to worry about that.
-clothing either needs to be unisex or come in a male and female variant.

I plan to create something like four robes and maybe one or two shirts and pants. This will probably be the most mundane design, and the closest to its real-world source of inspiration.
Post Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:48 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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