Claim: i4-515-Hla Not Available for Claiming
Maps In Group Map 4 at 1:(-1451, -3486):0
Accurate map
Parent: 4-8-Hla
 Status: Not available for claiming, 0% Complete
 Faction: House Hlaalu
Description
An underwater grotto in the Thirr River Delta, just south-west of Old Ebonheart (TES1: Arena's "Black Gate" easter egg?).

Location on the TR UESP map: http://tamrielrebuilt.uesp.net/trmap/?locx=45696&locy=-152040&zoom=17&showcells=true

Another map of the area: http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/rats_tr/this%20is%20how%20it%20looks_zpsmxp40kjm.png

(ignore the old Group Map coordinates)
Last Edited by Rats
(Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:32 pm) Post
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Osidian
Reviewer
18 Jul 2010

Location: Lisboa, Portugal

This grotto giving access to part of Black Gate from Arena would actually be nice, but that dungeon is located south-west of Almalexia, not Ebonheart.

I'll have some time in December so I may claim it now, if it's ok for the grotto to connect with semi-flooded, semi-collapsed ruins in Old Mournhold style.
Post Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:37 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Uesp says Black Gate was south west of OE.

Either way, an Old Mournhold style ruin would be most welcome! Since Black Gate was once sieged and sacked by Reman Legions, there could be remnants of the battle. (Certainly this place could serve as a quest location for the Archaeological Society)

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Post Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:47 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



While this might not be the BEST place to ask, I was rather enthralled reading up on Arena's take on Morrowind, and I have to ask a question; is there any plan to include the Hammer of Gharen or the Anvil of Mithas in this area or around Old Ebonheart...?
Post Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:01 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

I think there was some talk of those two being in the castle vaults, though I am not certain.
_________________
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
Post Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:19 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



I just find it particularly interesting because it's like they had the idea of Tonal Architecture before Morrowind was even conceptualized. And the fact that it opens the path to Red Mountain, or Dagoth-Ur specifically, is really quite interesting. Something about Black Gate here could possibly hint at a type of spacial 'warp', as it were, for housing a tonal instrument?
Post Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:44 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I seem to recall Sload was adamant about not including Black Gate in the mod years back. Not sure what his reasoning was, besides Arena's lore being rather generic from what I've gathered.
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Post Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:50 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Osidian
Reviewer
18 Jul 2010

Location: Lisboa, Portugal

Rats wrote:
Uesp says Black Gate was south west of OE.

That's wrong though. It's that dungeon southwest of Almalexia.



My idea for this still stands. The ruin's proper entrance has been lost and/or collapsed. The lower level is half-flooded and thought inaccessible forever.

The natural grotto is sort of uneventful and almost completely filled with water except for a few air pockets, but it's not too big to avoid scaring the player away. The ruin - what is left of it - is medium sized, one to two cells at most, located on the land southwest of OE.

The event that collapsed most of the ruin, probably caused the lower level to be flooded by making the grotto and the ruin connect.
Post Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:59 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Osidian
Reviewer
18 Jul 2010

Location: Lisboa, Portugal

Claiming
Post Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



Granted! :)
Post Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:06 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Seneca37
Lead Developer
10 Feb 2014



References please. Any TES3:books or TR:books about this?

I'm not objecting to a grotto with some Old Mournhold ruins in it, just trying to understand why.
Post Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:26 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Osidian
Reviewer
18 Jul 2010

Location: Lisboa, Portugal

I just proposed that because this used to be Indoril land. And I wanted to work with the set. Very Happy

But, I'm not really sure how we're planning to use Old Mournhold ruins, to be honest.
Post Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:36 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Ironed Maidens
Developer
23 Feb 2008



I think that, most importantly, the OM ruin set needs to be expanded before any type of big or new ideas are made that involve them.
Post Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Osidian, I'd say go ahead and start what you're planning to build. Most OM ruins were built during the Second Era or even before then, so that would leave plenty of time for a few to become buried and/or submerged in water.

For some generally agreed upon notes of the OM dungeons, you can read over this document, if you'd like.

_________________
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
Post Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:43 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

As far as the OM ruin is concerned, I intend to bring up the topic in the Skype meeting this Saturday; there are several possible locations around Old Ebonheart the ruin could represent, (though they are perhaps more likely to exist on the site of Old Ebonheart), such as Khalaan, an ancient temple believed to have been dedicated to Lorkhan, and the Indoril chapel which controlled the surrounding area before the Armistice.

In general, as I discuss in the thread RyanS linked, I currently think we should use the OM set in three primary ways:
-to represent some kind of pre-Tribunal ancestor temple, (Khalaan could well fall into this category), which should be designed like Daedric ruins, (from my experience the OM set is very well suited for that)
-to represent ruined Velothi villages of some description; generally just houses and maybe small tunnels. The set here is rather limited, as there are no proper interiors for the house models, and a limited number of house models as it is.
-to represent a ruined Indoril chapel; these ruins should be very grand and follow the basic design direction of current castle estates. (Which is not quite clear). The set is especially limited for this kind of stuff, though, and it's hard not to make things look cobbled together.
Post Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:41 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Rats
Lead Developer
03 Jul 2012



The Khalaan temple of Lorkhan should definitely be under Old Ebonheart (plenty of room below the Castle sewers for example) once we figure out what's supposed to be down there.

If OM ruin set is deemed ill-fitting for this claim perhaps Osidian could use the Dunmer stronghold set for the underground fort?

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stars are out tonight.
Post Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:25 am Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

That's another possibility, though I do think with Dunmer Strongholds that we should try and keep close to (not necessarily slavishly follow) the rather specific established layout I describe in the second spoiler tag here, and also that as strongholds are generally built on relatively flat terrain that it might be better to lead the grotto a little ways south or southeast before transitioning into the tileset.

If we go with a Dunmer stronghold, I think it should have a propylon chamber.
Post Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:30 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Any progress to report?
_________________
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
Post Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:44 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
RyanS
Lead Developer
19 Aug 2013

Location: California

Revoking and locking. Will move to the new browser shortly.
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