Spellbooks

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Kevaar
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Post by Kevaar »

So..what I'm hearing is NO fortify attack spell, though fortify skill spell is fine. But is there a skill that would fit in with this poem? I don't see any.

And for fortify attack, would it possibly work if the spell took a lot of mana/was of a very high skill level?
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Post by Earl »

Make it a unique book, and slap higher-than natural requirements on it.
Heck, put it in the inventory of a hard-to-kill warrior.
Or don't, and make said warrior give a series of quests during the course of which he'll give you the book (which he'd give via dialog, so it wouldn't be in his inventory, meaning you'd still have to jump through hoops to get it).

Besides which, if people lose one of the sanguine items somehow, this would give them another shot at learning the spell. Make it difficult enough to get, and make the giving NPC obscure enough, and I think it's a winner.

I like the poem too, for what it's worth.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Well, this brings up an important issue, I think. There are a lot of spell effects that could seriously unbalance a game, if the player gets his/her grubby paws on them. All of the spell effects that are sold by merchants somewhere I think should also be in a spellbook somewhere. This could be limited to one book per province of rarity for certain things like Summ Golden Saint.

But there are other spells that cause a much bigger problem, because they are not found by merchants in the game. In some cases, they are not found in the game, period. Things like Fortify Attack, Cure Corprus, and Restore Magicka are powerful abilities and cannot be purchased anywhere. Should we add these to the spellbooks in game? What guarantee do we have that the Cure Corprus spellbook won't end up in every single claim?

Here's my two cents on the matter. We should put some kind of "rank" to each of the spell effects that means something in terms of what can be put where.
- A rank of 1 might mean that it is common knowledge and can be put in public libraries. The only limitation would be the player's curiousity. This would be for effects like Restore Fatigue.
-A rank of 2 might mean that the spell effect is reserved knowledge for people in a specialized field of study, like a healer. This would limit the book to places where this kind of knoweldge might be found, and it will have to be guarded in some way (like a locked chest in a healer's bedroom for Restore Health)
-A rank of 3 indicates an effect that is specialized, like in rank 2, only it would be much more highly guarded. Such as a level 90 lock with a trap in a high priest's study for Cure Blight Disease.
- A rank of 4 is an effect which cannot be found in public areas. It can only be found in some dungeon somewhere, and it also may not be found in the same Map as a similar spellbook. There might only be one Summon Daedroth spellbook in all of Map 1, for instance.
-A rank of 5 is extremely rare knowledge. It can only be placed one per province and then only in extremely well guarded and hard-to-find areas. They should only be realistically accessible by characters of at least 15th level, and then with some difficulty. There may only be one very well hidden Cure Corprus disease spellbook in all of Morrowind.

Tell me your thoughts on this kind of system.
Last edited by Lord_Gallant on Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Arcadea »

I was thinking along the same lines. I say it sounds good use it.
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Post by Kevaar »

Besides that I think Cure Blight should be more available (think of the Buoyant Armigers having to use it all the time near Red Mountain), it's a good system.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Cure Blight would be a tightly guarded spell by those who use it, like bouyant armigers, healers, and priests. It should never really be public domain, and should be more guarded than, say Cure Common Disease, which would be another specialty sort of spell.

OK, the list on page 2 now has all of the ranks for each effect. I have added a new rank, rank 6.

-A rank of 6 means that the spell effect is either potentially problematic or very unbalancing and is a unique spellbook in Tamriel. This would be an artifact type of book that requires a quest surrounding its use.

Feel free to argue with me if you think a spell effect should have a different rank.
Last edited by Lord_Gallant on Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Kevaar »

So the poem will be for Fortify Attack, and there will be a quest for it. Am I guessing right?
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Yes. The book containing that poem will be an artifact kind of item. There will have to be a quest of some sort that would lead up to its discovery.
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Post by Enigma »

Actually LG, I have another idea for you. We could set up a claim system for the spellbooks, you LG, would make a list of all the spellbooks and how many of them you want, like for instance you could have Fortify Attribute in Tamriel say...45 times(quick estimate) and Cure Corprus only like 3 times. The claim system would say that like if Arcadea wnated to use one of those spellbooks he would claim it and you would have to grant it or deny it. This would moderate the amount of spellbooks to a managible degree.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

The thing is, this project will eventually end up being merged with Books of Tamriel in the Objects of Tamriel project. This is currently run by Eraser. I am not sure what Eraser has planned for the moderation of where items go, but if I set up a claims system for Spellbooks, it would clash with whatever he has set up and would end up separating the two. This would lead to all kinds of confusion.

Another problem is that if say, 45 Restore Fatigue books are made claimable, then who is to say that they won't all end up crammed in the first map? We have three unique spellbooks. What is to stop all three from being placed in the same map? I mean, sure I *could* actively moderate the entire process to ensure that this doesn't happen, but that sounds too much like work to me ;). I'd rather just hand this over to Eraser with all of the ranks for each book, so that the modders themselves have an idea of where the spellbooks should go.
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Post by Kevaar »

Hmm..using the rarity rating system, you could set up a rule of how many different rates can go in a cell. Like for 1 it would probably be up to five. And 6 would probably be 1/100. (Which means...in every 100 cells that are consecutive to one another, there is one rating 6 book. Right?) And this would mean in different places: I think its fine if you're putting in several to fill up a library shelf. But that would only be allowable for rating 1 and 2, maybe 3.
Last edited by Kevaar on Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Arcadea »

Talk to geowulf. he's in charge of books and has alloty odf contyrol over what happesn to them.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Rating 6 books are unique, so beyond that, it probably sounds like a good idea. I'm not sure how we could get people to collaborate with each other to find out what books were used where though. Maybe either the reviewers or the modders themselves could contact me whenever a spellbook is used and I will list the exteriors cells' coordinates where each book is found. Also sounds like a lot of work though, ;).
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Post by Earl »

Isn't there some way of using the CS to find out how many vendors sell a particular effect, and make rankings based on that?

I'm on the fence about some effects.
On the one hand, Summon Golden Saint has only one source, so I'd want it to be a 6. On the other, you can buy it. . .

There may only be one very well hidden Summon Golden Saint disease spellbook
You know, medical professionals these days can clear up a Golden Saint infection with some antibiotics :)

I'd say. . .

Rank 1 - Common books. You could find them in regular people's houses, for sale in pawnshops, and other lowly places. They teach effects everyone could be reasonably expected to know.

Rank 2 - Slightly less common. These are for marginally more colorful people, or people with more specific interests. You might find them in bookstores or libraries, but not in places that don't deal specifically with books.
Maybe a good starting point for "marginally more colorful people" would be those involved in a quest, but still very minor (like Sottilde in Balmora, who you need to get the Codebook from, or Nedhelas in Caldera, who's house is haunted).

Rank 3 - Again, one more step up. These are for people who have narrower interests, who specialize in a field of study. More prominent characters, like questgivers (In their houses, and maybe for sale), might own copies of these. Books may still be found in libraries, but not public ones - more like the secret library in Vivec, or in a Necromancer's hiding place.

Rank 4 - These are fairly rare, but not unheard of. For more prominent NPCs, regional heads of minor factions, and such. Tholer Saryoni is an example of a character who might have such books. Councilors for the Great Houses (Mouths might have rank 3 books), Darius in Gnisis, people like that. Maybe particularly nasty bad guys, like named daedra, might have them.

Rank 5 - More rare and obscure. Books of this level of power are usually only in the possession of seriously tough NPCs. Guys like Divayth Fyr, Vivec, Archmagisters, Duke Dren. People who are bad-ass to the point that they might be the biggest dog in their district. There might be more than one such guy in a district (I just listed 6, just in Vvardenfell), but they're pretty unique in themselves. People who stand out, names that everyone playing should be familiar with.

Rank 6 - Potentially game-breaking effects. Effects that cannot be bought, and sometimes cannot be gotten any other way. These are one-of-a-kind books, and have only the most powerful owners. Ocato should have books like this. Other NPCs should offer these books only after the player has completed numerous, dangerous quests for them (like the Morag Tong's Sanguine item quests). These are books that gods are hesitant to give up.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

The main reason I don't like your rank breakdown, Earl, is because it makes it more obscure to the modder as to where a spell effect is supposed to go. Ranks 2, 3, and 4 seem a little confused, since it is hard to qualify just how powerful someone is. Rank 5 is fairly easy to understand, since it describes a limited set of individuals (the big cheeses). Another thing is that I think it is important to take higher-caliber spellbooks out into the wilderness areas to make them harder to find. It would be way too easy to pickpocket (or drink enough sujamma to kill) a single person if that person was easily found. Some powerful lich in a serct underground cave, however, is a different story since it requires the character to venture out of the towns and wander.
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Post by Morden »

I have a question about the Drain Attribute spell book i'm writing.

Drain Attribute is an odd one, because spells usually only drain one attribute... such as Strength, Intelligence, ect.

So when somebody finds the Drain Attribute spell book, what determines the attribute they will be able to drain? Should there be a Drain Attribute spell book for each of the attributes?
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Drain Attribute is its own effect. There should really only be one book for any given effect (at least, for just Morrowind Province), so you only need to make one book. You can choose what attribute you want your book to talk about draining, though. And, the spell that you learn from the book can be your choice of attribute draining. But there only needs to be one book to get the effect.
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Post by Anonymous »

Well... This certainly is a good idea. I suggest though that instead of an intellegence requirement it be something you actually learn in-game. Say that there is a spellbook and you want to learn from it. Instead of being as intellegent as the average person (50 yes that is average compared to me Hehe) you must find certain books that teach you daedric. script for spellbook might look like this.

BTW i'm not sure if any of the following syntax is correct

begin Dispell_learn_daedric
short knowledge

if ( getjournalid "Daedric_level1" )
set knowledge to 1
endif

if ( knowledge == 1 )

do something interesting here

endif
end

And for the book that teaches you daedric.

begin daedric_level_one

if ( Onactivate )
add journalindex "Daedric_level1"
endif

end

And there woud be about 10 levels of daedric

Please criticise this is my first scripting idea.
Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Not so sure about this. We had originally tossed around the idea of using daedric runes in the spellbooks, but that was beaten down pretty hard (twice) because it stifles the creativity of the story writers. These arguements came about back when I honestly didn't think that making a decent story for EVERY spell effect would be plausible, but now that it seems otherwise I would tend to agree.

The way things currently are, each spellbook has two requirement levels. The first intelligence requirement is for even noticing that a spell could be learned from the story/poem. The second intelligent requirement is for actually learning the spell. Since there are no daedric runes in them (yet) you do not need to know any new language to understand the book.
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Post by Kevaar »

Perhaps one or two of the higher spell ranks could be in Daedric...just for fun.
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Post by Anonymous »

Honestly I don't like the idea of a "Story" for each song. I think (though don't mind me I suck at this)
It should be a list of componnents (if any) preparation then casting.

Though the story would be neat I just think (yet again) it's a little silly.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Hmm. Well I think that we have gone too far in our current direction to change things so drastically now. Earl will probably want to open up that can on you if he reads that ;).

We are only following the example Bethesda set for with skillbooks. I think what has been done so far for this project has been fantastic work, so getting rid of it is just out of the question.
Last edited by Lord_Gallant on Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Earl »

Originally posted by Uriah Hensley
I think (though don't mind me I suck at this)
It should be a list of componnents (if any) preparation then casting.
Actually, I agree with you.

The problem is, nobody knows how magic works in Morrowind. So far, all the descriptions I've seen involve a "spoken charm", and that's about the extent of it. There is another casting reference . . .
On summoning a Daedroth: "I was thinking of the color red," Turala said, concentrating. "The simplicity and clarity of it. And then -- I desired, and spoke the charm. And this is what I conjured up." . . . Also, the Daedroth was unsummoned (2920, FrostFall)

Other than that, it seems to be "say the magic word, and think good thoughts". Some witches say that Conjuration is a matter of being "friendly with the spirits of whatever". No componnents in anything I've run accross yet.

Based on that, the best book I could come up with is:
"Clear your mind of distractions, needless clutter. Think of ALMSIVI. Think of the power of ALMSIVI running through you. When you are still, say the words. Say [made-up jibber-jabber]."

There's just not a lot to go on.
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Post by Earl »

From Zombie:

Of the suggested effects*, I think (Charm) works best.


A mason's song

Some fifteen years ago, I met a bard with the strangest of all
stories to tell. Born an ashlander, his view to life was very different
from mine and most of the surrounding mer folk as well. Perhaps that is
why he fascinated me with such a great influence.
Although old and withered now, Fainissibi had once
travelled through all Tamriel, gathering a great many stories from the
land's humble folk. After twenty elven years of living among commoners,
earning one's bread by doing masonry in Imperial forts, near new-found
ore deposits, and plowing the corkbulb fields of Morrowind and Black
Marsh, he chose to settle down in one of the most beautiful cities of
eastern Morrowind, Tear. There he still sings and entertains the visitors
of the Crimson Cutlass tavern.

After many miles of travelling horseback from Alten Corimont
to Tear, our party leader decided to make an expedition to the local
taverns. We, being paid by following orders, had the opportunity of
once again following, and perhaps saving him from a plethora of
problems with the authorities. We began by drinking fine sujamma in
the Hanging Argonian. Perhaps even too fine - Enhyn had gotten his
"let us conquer the Black Marsh" drive on and promptly stated that
if he should ever encounter a free Argonian of prosperous stature,
the beast be slain on the spot. After another round in the Lizard
Carcass, a rather shady trader inn underground, our master was
already too lushed to think clearly, and was ready to conquer
Elsweyr too. Then we finally arrived to the Crimson Cutlass.

There an elder Dark Elf sat, against the wall, with several
tired journeymen 'round him on small stools. Enhyn had always been
fond of heroic epics described and portrayed by poets who had seen
it all, and this mer certainly had the looks. The man, whom people
addressed as Fainissibi, sang:

"Laying tiles for days, 'side the abundant hills of Lainlyn
Working with an ogre's pace, amongst others there was Barin
A race of Redguard, strongest of the lot
Even he could not stand the burden of the job.

One day we were a'working on the eastern wall
for had our captain commanded us, "It shall cover the glade by
nightfall"
So we toiled, toiled hard, from dusk till sunset glow
But as the darkness drew near, it seemed we could not finish the last row.
Thus Barin, eager and strong still, went to the captain's camp on the side of
the hill.
He climbed down from the slight spire and to the stand
While descending down, he did not see the rope's other end
and clung to it as he fell.
Rope attached to the ground and wall, fresly masorned, came crumbling
apart.

For his faith to see mere twenty-five times of warmth, no more
Yet from life, he knew what to expect for
Dreams of a man, and past, struck down by the eastern wall of a mine
built to last.

So it went and the story was told on the taverns of Hammerfell
How a laborer was struck down hard, struck down like a spell
Though a man of little stature, Barin was no fool
And there he rests, in the pit of Lainlyn, bottomless and cruel."

Enhyn, as expected, had gotten very furious even before the
fourth verse and had left the tavern swinging from side to side,
apparently ending up back in the Hanging Argonian. I did not pay
attention to him, though, being mesmerized by the story Fainissibi
had told and those yet to come.

You might wonder, why is one measly bard so fascinating
that he deserves to be praised in a book. It is exactly the same
reason many others thought of Fain - why would a good-mooded
patron want to hear a story of a laborer being grotesquely
splashed by a ton of bricks?

It has been said by many, echoed by Fain among others, that every being
is worth a song, and that is why the outcast bard of Erabenimsun tribe
was so remarkable and struck to me as a gentle mind amongst the stressed
and bad-habited people of these days. Sometimes, stories of one's
failure give meaning and faith to others.








* "This spell fits in with the following effects:
The story itself is about a bard, whose stories are very attractive
to the storyteller for some reason. Still, the same story
demoralizes Enhyn, the storyteller's master. And the poem in the
middle, well, it relates to damage health (in a lethal way, so it
should be rather powerful). However, that seems a bit
distant option. I would choose between Charm and Demoralize, but
I'll leave it up to you to make the final decision."



Also, he's working on a Summon Frost Atronach book.
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Post by Anonymous »

Thank you Earl.

The whole idea in general has (nearly) unlimited potential. I hope it goes well for you Lord_Gallant.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Hope what goes well for me?
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Post by Kevaar »

Originally posted by Earl
Actually, I agree with you.

The problem is, nobody knows how magic works in Morrowind. So far, all the descriptions I've seen involve a "spoken charm", and that's about the extent of it. There is another casting reference . . .
On summoning a Daedroth: "I was thinking of the color red," Turala said, concentrating. "The simplicity and clarity of it. And then -- I desired, and spoke the charm. And this is what I conjured up." . . . Also, the Daedroth was unsummoned (2920, FrostFall)

Other than that, it seems to be "say the magic word, and think good thoughts". Some witches say that Conjuration is a matter of being "friendly with the spirits of whatever". No componnents in anything I've run accross yet.

Based on that, the best book I could come up with is:
"Clear your mind of distractions, needless clutter. Think of ALMSIVI. Think of the power of ALMSIVI running through you. When you are still, say the words. Say [made-up jibber-jabber]."

There's just not a lot to go on.
You believe it can happen, and feel the power flowing through you, and it happens. At least that was the impression I got when I read Breathing Water (Alteration teaching book--a story about a man learning to breathe water).

Btw, technically there are already spellbooks for the the effects Breathe Water and Silence. The books were released with the original game, and I'm wondering if we should make those into spellbooks or just create new stories/poems for these spell effects. The books were about learning the spells, and would be good for spellbooks.
Last edited by Kevaar on Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Anonymous »

You and Earl are doing these spellbooks right?
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Post by Kevaar »

I'm doing the Silence spellbook, but the thought just occured to me...
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

@Uriah- For the most part I'm the one deciding where this project goes. I don't like to make decisions that others are unhappy with, so I usually ask for opinions before doing anything. Earl has been the driving force behind the writing of stories for the project, which was an idea first presented on the old forum by Zombie, I believe. My originaly plan was to make a "recommended mod" (like an optional addon for TR) that would use scripts placed on books already in the game. Rodan suggested it be added to TR, and so went along with it. So, currently, I would be the decision maker/merger (though I am always open to discuss new possibilities), and Earl is our major spellbook writer and editor.
Last edited by Lord_Gallant on Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RaJevir »

I agree that at least some of the spellbooks should be written in daedric runes - it makes them seem more arcane, and besides, that way they're fun to decipher. After all, all the scrolls are written in deadric..;.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

Yeah, but most of the scrolls say stupid things. Things like "Death to Thee" or something like.
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Post by Anonymous »

LOL
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Post by Earl »

You believe it can happen, and feel the power flowing through you, and it happens. At least that was the impression I got when I read Breathing Water (Alteration teaching book--a story about a man learning to breathe water).
That's the same vibe I got from 2920, Rain's Hand.
"The charm is intensified by the energy you bring to it, by your own skills,
just as all spells are," he said. "Your imagination and your willpower are
the keys. There is no need for a spell to give you a resistance to air, or a
resistance to flowers, and after you cast the charm, you must forget there is
even a need for a spell to give you resistance to fire. Do not confuse what
I am saying: resistance is not about ignoring the fire's reality. You will
feel the substance of flame, the texture of it, its hunger, and even the heat
of it, but you will know that it will not hurt or injure you."
I have kleptomania, but when it gets really bad, I take something for it.
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Earl
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Post by Earl »

(Water Breathing)
Second part of A Just Punishment

Travel was a nightmare for Londenrume. The Nords set a murderous pace, and the frozen lands
of northern High Rock seemed to conspire against him. The one saving grace was that Haeflig,
the younger Nord, stalked out ahead and killed anything that troubled him. Considering the
relative ease with which he dispatched the odd malevolent beast, Londenrume would not have
been surprised had the powerful youth claimed nothing troubled him at all. That they could cover
so much harsh ground so quickly, and that Haeflig could swing his axe so tirelessly along the
way did much to banish from Londenrume's mind the notion of fleeing his captors.

At the end of the fourth day's marching, when they prepared a rudimentary camp, Traskig, the
elder Nord, decided it was time to share some information with Londenrume. As was his habit,
the bearded Nord gave up little.

"Elf. A ship was wrecked off the western Skyrim coast. That's where we're going." When
Londenrume pried for more, all Traskig would say was "A day after we pass Jehanna, you go
your way, we go ours. Keep asking questions, your way will be in the ground."

After another four wretched days, the small party looked out over the bitterly frigid coastline of
Skyrim. The Nords called for halt at what looked like just another stretch of water to
Londenrume. Talking among themselves, they each nodded, convinced that this was the spot
they'd been seeking. Shivering against the wind, the Altmer walked cautiously over to his
kidnappers.

"You said before I was a sharp mer." he said through chattering teeth, "Since I've been dragged
uselessly along while the two of you cleared the way, I take it this is what you needed me for?"

"Yes, elf." Haeflig answered, "The ship has sunk far below where we can reach it. We would
have gotten a spell caster closer to home, but only we know of the ship, and telling one local
means fifty would know. Don't need the competition. Just need someone competent to cast a
spell of water breathing."

"Don't you worry about the water?" Londenrume asked.

Traskig had looked annoyed with Haeflig for having volunteered so much information, but at that
both could not help but laugh openly. "We are Nords, elf. We bathe ourselves in snow. These
waters? Tepid." Haeflig continued chuckling, with typical Nord bravado.

Londenrume quickly silenced them by asking if he would get a cut of the loot from the sunken
ship. Traskig turned his cold, hard eyes on the Altmer and with equal warmth told him "Of
course. We will spread everything out on the ground, appraise it, and split the take in half. My
half, Haeflig's half, and your half."

Quietly, Londenrume stated "Three halves aren't a whole."

"Oh yes they are, elf." Traskig stared a hole through Londenrume, "All halves have the same
value. Our halves tell us how much gold will line our pockets. Yours tells you how much your
life is worth, how much we must earn for us not to kill you."

Londenrume wanted to laugh back in their faces, and call them for the fools they were, but
somehow held his contempt in. When the Nords demanded he cast the water breathing spell, he
cast it. Of course, it didn't last as long as they'd hoped. A pity, thought Londenrume as they
struggled vainly to the surface. Whatever treasures they sought, they would indeed get to spend
eternity with. Unless the slaughterfish tore their corpses apart. A just punishment for being
foolish enough to threaten one upon whom your life depended.
I have kleptomania, but when it gets really bad, I take something for it.
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Post by Earl »

(Invisibility)

Hand in Hand

Honest and honorable the foresters claim
but a lie is put in their words, a trace of blame
One era past, then two and three rears it's head
and since the end of the beginning
when near the heart they are struck dead

Cowards stain their hands in service of the stained hands
but since staining the heart, condemned themselves to one land
Strike from surprise or secret or afar
the foresters killed themselves by killing
a first era dragon in it's last-years war

Now the shadow-hands skulk
in the shadow of a god-king
Now they hide in his city-ribs
safe from discovery
The god-king-city the evolution of their stained master

Unseen, the shadow-hands open the unwary neck
and hide behind parchment to escape their crimes
Unseen, the shadow-hands stab the unwatched back
and spin their malevolent webs
all for so-called honor
and a pitiful pile of hay

What grace, what skill they say
I rebut "What point has it
but to cheapen life already too cheap
but to put a last resort first in the mind
but to blacken a murderer's hand with death?"
I have kleptomania, but when it gets really bad, I take something for it.
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Earl
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Post by Earl »

From Zombie:

"This one is about forms of magicka and how to control them.
Incidentally, it has the same subject as you've been discussing on the
forums. I'll briefly comment it by saying that the idea of writing
spellbooks in types of strict formulas is outright stupid - who would
ever read them, other than the know-it-all loremasters? These stories,
poems and research papers, as this is, are interesting to both write and
read.

Also, isn't the spellclaiming system a bit stupid? Either you or L_G
said that there are no limitations on what spell you want to claim, but
the priority is in making at least one version of every spell (save for
perhaps the most unbalancing ones). So claiming only slows things down
and gives people the possibility to claim the most interesting spells
long before they've even begun to work on them. Just
separating the unbalancing ones from the majority and saying that for
those, discussion would be necessary, should be enough.


Anyway, here's the book. Once again it's different from those I've
written before for the project, and may conflict with lore, so comments
are very much welcome, as always."


Earl saying this - Being that the subject of actual magical formulas, the sources magic, the influences on it, et al in Tamriel makes my brain hurt, if anyone else sees a lore violation, feel free to point it out. Assuming that there is one, it could always be explained by saying the book is ancient, and is based on information that has since been disproven, or that such-and-such a thing isn't necessarily required, or something.




(Summon Frost Atronach)

On elemental Daedra
by Elvyr

Many have studied, and been mezmerized by the behavior of
summonable daedra in battles and when being attacked. In order to use
less magicka and gain longer periods of conjuration time, there have
been proposals on how to properly fluctuate the mana stream to certain
threads, such as from Magnus to Aetherius' second plane or through
Secunda to the Void Itself. However, magicka redirection is an extremely
complex subject and but a few wizards have ever claimed to accomplish
this, most notably Amion of Crystal Tower, but with him drifting into
madness after living eight hundred years and not eager to teach, the
mystery will remain. I was one of the few living Mer to see him perform
the conjuration of Frost Atronach with a simple gesture and no mantras
at all.
As we all know, all common mages have to rely on the usual
method of the customary mantra 'Web-Oht-Ekem Yoodt-Payem-Oht-Neht
Yahkem-Oht-Yoodt' or a slight variation of it, and the hand gesture of
symmetrically aligning three first fingers not to any sphere of Daedra
gods. A common point to focus one's attention is the sun, as it is the
direct link to the source of magicka itself and thus neutral. Some
disagree, though, but Magnus has been proven to be the most powerful of
all points in the firmament.
When I finally took the chances of actually testing the
redirection procedures, the results did not prove to be as succesful as
I first thought. Firstly a test environment was needed, so unnecessary
deaths would be avoided. I chose to put a kwama forager in a lair with a
traditionally summoned Frost Atronach. Being an agressive beast as it
is, the kwama chose to defend itself from the freezing cold elemental,
dying swiftly in the attempt. Yet, the Atronach itself showed no signs
of agression against such a beast until attacked. The summoning of an
atronach is considered an offensive act for the atronach will engage on
any enemy of the caster, with no regards to its own fate. The question
remains, though, how does a summoned Daedra detect these aggressors and
could the detection be made more effective, perhaps to the level of
thoughts themselves?
On a continued experiment, I was to stream the magicka not make
the atronach's physical appearance visible, but to render only its
actions obvious for any dweller of Nirn. This would not be done by an
invisibility spell that hides already visible matter, there is a major
difference between these two. However, the test failed as the actions of
the atronach were bound between Obvilion and Nirn, not reaching either
one. I have not been able to find studies on this subject and doubt
there even are any.
Another thing to consider was to lessen the amount of cold
energy a Frost Atronach releases while being summoned. It seemed that
even peaceful critters would either escape or attack when being caught
by this small but noticeable field. Unnecessary energy should be either
surged to other, more needed attributes or reserved to another purpose
later. It might not be much, but as it is gradually building up,
summoning three Atronach a day without this effect would be noticeable
in the magicka surroundings.
On repeated experiments with a kwama being near to a frost
atronach and redirecting the flow from the Elvyr field, as I shall call
it, to the Void itself, pleasant results were finally achieved. The
kwama did not, in fact, pay no attention to the atronach although it was
clearly visible. This called for testing with diseased rats, who were
far more eager to attack it, although still a bit hesistant. It seems
that for kwama, the only way to detect an odorless elemental is its
surrounding heat field, or motion, a Storm Atronach's defining feature.
On one thing uncertainty bothers me, though - does the said flow method
actually apply to all spellcasters, or does it require a connection with
the Void only formed by fierce practice?
I have kleptomania, but when it gets really bad, I take something for it.
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Post by Lord_Gallant »

There were a few lore violations in that, but I doubt that anyone would notice.

Invisibility and Water Breathing done by Earl, Frost Atronach done by Zombie.

Earl that water breathing book sounds a lot like the book "Breathing Water" towards the end. Don't know if this was your intent or what.

What formula is Zombie talking about? I don't think that I have ever requested any restrictions on spellbook writers, other than possibly the length (needs to be long enough to catch attention).

Also, the claims system makes it so that people will be much more likely to claim books that people have not already done. It's a mentality thing. People will feel a little wrong about doing a book that has been done, unless we start requesting more books. The priority is to get each effect done, and even though we could find a use for additional books, these are not nearly as useful.
Trudging through the relentless Skyrim snowstorms, the lone Paladin looks on in sorrow as the land of Tamriel evolves without him; his mind occupied with other matters.
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Post by Skurvy »

I think Zombie was referring to them being written in the Daedric language or whatever, so that you couldnt actually read them straight off the page .... at least i think thats what he was talking about :)

Skurvy

PS: L_G, is there an existing list of the spellbooks you still need doing, and can anyone write one?
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Post by Zephyr »

Uriah Hensley wrote:
Honestly I don't like the idea of a "Story" for each song. I think (though don't mind me I suck at this)
It should be a list of componnents (if any) preparation then casting.

Though the story would be neat I just think (yet again) it's a little silly.
I was referring to that when saying that writing in formulas would be stupid.

Anyway, hi all. I decided to register when Noirgrim pushed the issue on IRC. To those who didn't get it, I'm the Zombie guy who's been writing some of the books, just had a nickname changed when I was on the old forums.

Skurvy: Page 2, this thread. There's the list of all completed, claimed and unclaimed books.
Last edited by Zephyr on Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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