Claim 6-1: Ald Mar

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Claim 6-1: Ald Mar

Post by Yinnie »

For the benefit of Garland....

All discussions of Ald Mar will be here. Start anew and fresh.

Good luck and Happy Modding.

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Post by Hermit »

Now.... Ald Mar .... Layouts, etc.. Anyone with ideas that will help Garland?
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Sadly, I have no screens of Indoril Old Keep, but if it follows the terrain outlines of the old, Imperial Old Keep, I'd say make the island fortified, and go for a sort of Mount St.Michelle look, only with those wonderfully sinister Dres models. Especially the revamped ones, which look even greater than those that are in use right now.
The island should be completely walled, using the terrain available, and thus making it a formidable fort. Also, the bridges should have a drawbridge component, to add in the fortress feeling of the city. Maybe even add some water outlets (more things yet to be modeled) below the water line, secured like those in Vivec.
The city itself should be cramped, without any great plazas, and not as flat as the average Bethesda city either. More like a San Francisco feeling, instead of LA, if you want. Maybe a road, spiralling upwards, all houses rather towerlike, only few of the one-story Dres buildings, and at the top, a small palace for the local land lord/resident councillor. Also, the mountain would provide great dungeon opportunities, as in hollowed out mountain and secrets buried beneath the city - maybe an old daedric site, still in use by the daedra-worshipping Dres? Also, where the real councillor, that vampire, lives?
Maybe, as Dres will have seven major cities, each of them should have a hidden daedric site dedicated to one of the Chimeric Daedra, Azura, Mephala, Boethida, Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, Sheogorath, and Malacath? Justan idea. Hey, we could even use this for the Dres Main Quest, MMQ, and even TMQ!

So, let's hope this thread will tremain friendly and civil; unlike it's ill-fated predecessor.

For the record, what has been descided is descided, no discussion on "why" and "if", as of now, let's focus on "how best to". and only that. :)
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Post by Nazz »

I just want to point out something about the faction lines. They are not based on some set in stone lore map that has the faction lines layed out. All we had were general areas, Indoril in the center, Redoran in the west, Telvanni in the east, Dres in the south/south east, and Hlaalu everywhere else. The faction map has been BS'ed and drawn and then decided to be changed and BS'ed again and redrawn based on those general areas several times now. So its not like its some huge crime to make Old Keep Dres because its in "Indoril Territory" because that area being indoril was arbitrary based on the fact that someone decided Old Keep should be Indoril.
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Garland
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Post by Garland »

I like hermit's idea. It's fitting with house dres's character for their towns to be tightly enclosed with very little open area.

The town is built on top of an ancient ruin of some sort, possibly dwemer. The real councilor, who is a vampire, lives in this ruin, therefore, the ruins are sealed off (probably just a locked door with a lock level of 0)

There are around 15-20 buildings in the town. The town is built upon 3 floors, each floor smaller then the last one. The first and the second floor have a small walkway around the outside. The first floor has as many buildings as I can fit in it, a support beam for the next floor, and two entrances. The second floor is on a platform, with a circle of buildings, and a support beam in the center of the room. It also has an exit to the walkway around the keep. The top of the fort would be be open air, with a small garden where the landings were on the other floors, the garden doesn't take up the whole floor though, because the palace is behind it, with a little path through the garden to it. The palace would also have a back door to a balcony

I'm not quite sure how big it will need to be, and how the spiral walkway will be able to go over the buildings easily enough, but I'll figure it out. It could probably be done with a shorter building than the normal 3 story one.

So far, the new models required would be:

The keep itself
Drawbridges
The palace
2 new "tall" buildings. (one that is smaller, and one that is different, to break up the monotony.)
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Post by Hermit »

This really sounds cool garland, have a go on it! (damn, I gotta claim a Dres city too! :D).
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Post by Garland »

I've actually decided that a round shape is not the best, it's very difficult to put square buildings against round walls. The fort will be octagonal. I've also decided not to put the staircase in the same room as the buildings, it will instead be a separate shaft. (like in an imperial fort, that have the towers with spiral staircases.)
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Hey, you used my name! :shock: :D Awesome! thanks too, it sounds quite sinister and appropriate for dres.
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Post by Garland »

Thanks, though technically it's not your name, but you did help unravel the meaning of Mar and notify me of the fact that there was a better name, so I thank you, sirwootalot. 8)

The keep will also need a staircase on the outside that goes down to the docks. It will need a shaft below the manor on the top, that leads down into the ruins below.
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Post by Hermit »

Does that mean you'll expand the dwemer tile set too? That'd be really great ... :)
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Post by Garland »

Well, until munkie decides, I'm not sure whether there will be a councilor in the ruins. I'm not sure if the staircase would be dwemer, because I'm not sure if the ruins will be dwemer, or even ruins at all...heh.
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Post by Garland »

Well, the computer I had the one I was working on...basically died. :P So I guess I'll have to start over again, unless I want to wait to get that computers hard drive back into some sort of way to where I can get stuffs off it. Meh, I hadn't done all that much, I'd mainly been working on some other things and waiting for veet to finish converting a dres building. I'll need to get someone to draw a concept sketch of Ald Mar so somebody can model it.
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Post by Garland »

I should be getting back the computer that has the latest version of this on it today. If it still has it on it, then I'll start from there, if not, I'll start over again.
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Post by Garland »

Well, I guess it's start-over time... :)
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Post by Garland »

Well, I've got the basic landscape laid out, now I need to texture it and line it up with my neighboring claims.
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Post by Seran »

My ass if it's not a huge deal to change it to dres.
Jesus..
You can't cut that down.
Dres shouldn't be a large house at all, it's the smallest house in all of morrowind.
And Indoril is the largest.
You can't just cut that down.
Nazz I totally disagree whit you on that.
This is a huge deal.

Dres has nothing to do so far north as that.
I belive it should stay Imperial.
If only becus of Name I whould think is should stay like it was.
But also becus of the location.
Dres should never be able to hold such a strategic possission.
You have three large cities that have to trade whit this one city.
Gah Rhun - Silnim Dale - Kogo Aimrah
All trade from these cities should go trough Old Keep.
If you want to give dres any areas give them Aryon Jungle.


Anyway. What happend to the old town?
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Post by Túrelio »

I am not sure making it Dres would be a huge shift in power would it? Indoril already controls the Capital of Morrowind, and alot of territory, it is fairly undisputed even with Hlaalu's recent land grab. Also, Tear is mentioned as a Major port of the East, so obviously Dres has something here, what would be so wrong with this? I am not say it should or shouldn't be either so you know.
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Post by Anonymous »

Well, I have always been against started completely over when we had one kickass city that other guy made..
Keep in mind there are (atleast) 4 dres cities + those on the map in the makings
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Post by Garland »

I never said I personally didn't like the city that was originally there, but many changes have already been made because of the decision to change it to dres. I'm not going to change it to something else, it's already been changed too much.
Dres shouldn't be a large house at all, it's the smallest house in all of morrowind.
You wouldn't believe how tired I am of hearing that. Dres is a GREAT HOUSE, it should have more than 1 town, and 1 city, so stop complaining. The problem is, is that with that few towns, it would already have been absorbed into one of the other houses. Saying that one more town isn't gonna help, is true, but a few others have been converted as well. The reason we need more "towns", instead of "plantations", is because, plantations are not going to have shops, inns, or guilds.

Well, on a progress note, I have downloaded all my neighboring claims, it's gonna be difficult lining this thing up... Oh, and also, I HATE it when people submit their claim without lining it up. Thankfully, his shouldn't be too difficult to line up with.
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Post by Garland »

If anyone is waiting on me to line this up, then don't worry about it. I'll be gone for the next week. I'll update this thread when I line it up. I'm just gonna post my mod that will have been modified to be as close as possible to yours, and then you can line yours up with that, that way I don't have to have the latest versions of your claims.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Unless there is a model already, you don't need a new model for the keep- you can just use the dres canal models (ask munkie if you want to use them). I find they can really make a place look fortified; and if you use them then you can make indoor plazas (when dres interior architechture arrives) and a sewer.
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Garland wrote:I never said I personally didn't like the city that was originally there, but many changes have already been made because of the decision to change it to dres. I'm not going to change it to something else, it's already been changed too much.
Dres shouldn't be a large house at all, it's the smallest house in all of morrowind.
You wouldn't believe how tired I am of hearing that. Dres is a GREAT HOUSE, it should have more than 1 town, and 1 city, so stop complaining. The problem is, is that with that few towns, it would already have been absorbed into one of the other houses. Saying that one more town isn't gonna help, is true, but a few others have been converted as well. The reason we need more "towns", instead of "plantations", is because, plantations are not going to have shops, inns, or guilds.

Well, on a progress note, I have downloaded all my neighboring claims, it's gonna be difficult lining this thing up... Oh, and also, I HATE it when people submit their claim without lining it up. Thankfully, his shouldn't be too difficult to line up with.
What I've seen you already have quite a few dres city, coupled with the fact that near the whole south-east is covered with plantation. Noone others have converted from their orignally planned faction.
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Post by Túrelio »

While House Dres is considered the smallest of the Great Houses, I think this is just because they are not as expansive as the other Great Houses. All the other houses have holdings on Vvardenfell, even Indoril to a sense with its ties to the Temple, however they have been in power for a very long time anyways.

Dres on the other hand seemed more interested in where they are now, and probably it is because they are doing fine with it. Dres is very wealthy, because of it's many plantations. Also considering that they haven't expanded, it may well be likely that they have more close together cities, denser population then the rest of the Houses.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Exactly; this is why I added a dres town which I have now found to be bigger than corkarth (corkarth has 15 buildings, balsan mar has 25 (counting the pass)).
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Post by Kothloth »

Congrats, you simply added a city classed "big medium sized" to your claim. Now, why wouldn't everyone do that? How wonderful Morrowind would be if that were the case!
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

I appreciate your sarcasm, koth :) . quite frankly, it would SUCK if everyone did that! however, we are following lore, and lore says the mainland is more densely populated than vvardenfell. Just helping out that statement. Besides, my town only takes up one cell, and there are only something like 4 other new towns that have more than 15 buildings (Darconis, Dondril, Kha'ank, and Tel Ouada I believe).
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Post by Túrelio »

Yea but I think the thing he was hinting at is discussing where to place new towns, not just someone adding whatever to their claim. Although I agree that the mainland needs to be more populated, it needs to be planned.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

it WAS planned, in the "dres cities" thread. Also, I don't really appreciate someone waiting two whole months to tell me my city won't work out, and I thought the whole team knew about the place anyways.
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Post by Kothloth »

I personally don't read up on everything on these boards. I tend to keep to my own areas, and map 6-16 and house Dres isn't one of them, which is the reason beyond this late reply. I only say that these kind of things *must* be clearly brought to attension so that corrections for it may be made. Adding it on maps, giving the place a purpose etc. A city with 25 interiors isn't a small place. It will most likely need some kind of transporation, binding it to a quickroute and in an instant, it has turned into quite the important city. Which is also the reason one can't simply add this without being sure it can be made. I wont tell you to raze your city to the ground, but I would ask if you could somehow try to make it unimportant. Easiest way to reach this is to remove interiors I guess. If you get the amont down at 10-15, then it will still be within acceptable limits for a made up village. That would leave no hassle, and it can't be such a grand change? Judging from your screenshot, you've place the common buildings very tight. If you remove one inbetween each two houses, you could probably reach this limit without having the city itself changed a lot. Place a marketstand or a nice tree inplace of the buildings, and it wont really affect the place as whole I would say. Atleast try to do this, since it would conciderable cut down the overall work, since a bigger city would need it's own set of guilds and quests for it to have a purpose. And for every such city we add, an other 25+ hour of work will be needed. Not to mention the extra 10 interiors...
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Post by Garland »

Uh, I don't think this discussion of 6-16 needs to carry on in my thread.

Well, now my neighbor to the left has submitted his damn claim, and it's way freaking off from mine. Just to teach him a lesson, I'll not line up with him, he shouldn't have a border 300 feet high when there's a river in the next cell to the left! :evil: :evil: :evil: And HE was wanting me to line up with him!!!!!!!!

If someone knows whether or not his border is still that way, feel free to tell me.
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Post by Anonymous »

Relax and work it out with him, it's no need for hostile smileys!
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Post by Garland »

Yeah, well he's gone for two weeks...
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Funny you're yelling, as the best solution is something you yourself made.
Try using one of your cliff models on the side of the river, and if its too big it can easily be scaled down.
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Post by Garland »

Okay, I've lined up as best I could, so if anybody hasn't already submitted their claim, then they can line up with this.

Also of note, my computer is going even more insane now, the cd drive is randomly popping out.
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Post by Rodan »

Got slightly confused. Is this the submitted version?
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Post by Garland »

No, it's not.
That's for my neighbors to line up with. It's not the final version. That's probably what happened to that neighbor of mine... He left for a week, posted a version of his mod, it was added to the map, he came back, and then it was opened for claiming...
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Post by Garland »

I'm up at my cousin's house until thursday.
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Post by Garland »

Okay, well, now I'm back home. I'll see if I can get anything done on this mod...
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Post by Garland »

I worked a little on it. I textured the northernmost shores, though I haven't put the path in. I'm sorry if I seem lazy. I tend to work on it when I feel like it.
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Post by Hermit »

Since Garland dropped it, I would like to claim and finish 6-1. I have bneen itching to use the Dres architecture for a while now, and will get it done soon, I promise. :)
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

claim in the exterior forum... you're one of our veterans and you forgot that. astounding. :lol:
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