Dres lore

[storm_crow]

I've decided to start this topic because, well, while trying to write a book on the Dres slave trade and their raids in Argonia, I realized there was little information to be found on Dres on the forums. I ended up finding an article in the Imperial Library, but I thought it would be interesting to pool all the Dres lore information here (if the admins find this useless then let they delete this topic).

Anyways, it's important to notify that Dres is a highly Hierarchal house and that there are four main groups:

1)Alt-Julan: These are the Dres nobles. They are very wealthy, own plantations, rule the house, and posess a large number of slaves.

2)Gha'Kogo: This is the second rank, soldiers and guards hired by noblemen stand here, as well as the advisors of the wealthy. The higher ranked Dres have a group of these people working for them, they basically act as leeches to suck up to the Alt-Julan to be able to live a good life.

3)Merchants: The merchants, though they are near the bottom of the chain, can still be wealthy because they don't produce anything, they buy them off slaves and craftsmen and then sell them for higher prices. Merchants sometimes end up acting as a money-lenders.

4)Slaves: Dres is a house who's capital, Tear, is in the south of Morrowind, near the border to the Black Marsh. Dres hold an incredible amount of slaves, mostly Argonians which they get by raiding the nearby swampland (note that Dres do hold slaves from other races in the great slave pits of Tear). It is said that the slaves learn to accept their fate and thus uprisings do not occure often, the Dres leaders, it seems, have learned to convince their slaves that they are bound to working in the plantations.

(note: It is nearly impossible for a member of the Dres society to change rank)

The Dres organization system goes as follows:
Hireling
Retainer
Oathman
Lawman
Kinsman
Adept
Novitiates
Overseer
Vizier
Viceroy

Dres Economy is based on the culture of saltrice in the fertile Deshaan Plains, which is in turn supported by the slave trade, slaves obviously being the workers who tend to the fields. The Dres agricultural techniques have not been affected by Imperial Culture as they despise outlanders.

Dres is a very religious house. Temple priests are not included in the four ranks explained at the begining, they are simply too important and reverred. The Dres still believe, as the ashlanders do, to the veneration of their ancestors. Each home has a small shrine where one can pray to the ancestors of the family. When a new member is added to a family by adoption or marriage, he bonds with the family and with the spirits of that family's ancestors also, though keeping a bond with his old shrine also.

In the bigger homes, a whole room can be dedicated to the ancestors shrine where the members go pray and offer sacrifices to the spirits, in return of which the spirits grant their heir blessings, training and knowledge. This room is called the Waiting Door, representing the door to Oblivion. The Temple does not exactly appreciate the veneration of ancestors through these practices, which comes to show that Dres, though tied to the temple, still maintain the old traditions.

Please if you have any more informaiton on Dres, write down all you know, I'm sure this can be helpful for people working on projects that have to do with Great House Dres.

[Garriath]

Viceroy

Is this official lore? If not, I think it ought to be changed; that term just brings back a little too much Star Wars for my taste.

[Colostriph]

I consider helping you an obligation. While this might not help you with your politics book, or maybe it will, I might as well give you the info I know.

Dres' alliances with the other houses differs. I am mainly going to talk about hlaalu on this. Dres as allies in hlaalu, but also has enimies.

In an illegal alliance, or rather underground alliance, they welcome the Cammona Tong. I am guessing that considering the Dres background, that they are probably very giving to those that share their visions on outlanders. I'm sure that the Cammona tong illegaly trades slaves with them, but this shouldn't be mentioned in your book.

Another ally is house Indoril. They're on very, very good terms. After Vivec made the little truce with the imperial invaders, I do believe it was only them and indoril that swore on their souls that they would one day reclaim morrowind, or something of that sort. Telvanni remained neutral, hlaalu were rather welcoming, and redoran I'm still not sure.

As Tear is the largest port in Morrowind, and it is the Dres capital, Dres are open for trade of many kinds. Mostly it's from other dunmer or sload, but other trade has come in.

Dres , while worshipping daedra, worship good daedra. I do not recall reading anything about them summoning daedra, but I'm almost certain that do to their beliefs in the old ways, they most probably summon ancestors to protect their tombs.

[Colostriph]

Viceroy

Is this official lore? If not, I think it ought to be changed; that term just brings back a little too much Star Wars for my taste.

It is garriath.

Storm Crow did an entire, thoughrow lore check. He knows his stuff about dres.

(But not as much as I know about their vampires! moohahah.)

Besides, why do you think the post has been stickied?

[Vegor]

I don't think the ranks are official lore. They were made up by someone from TR as far as I know. They have been accepted, but I guess we can always change them. I don't see much problems with viceroy though.

[Garriath]

Viceroy

Is this official lore? If not, I think it ought to be changed; that term just brings back a little too much Star Wars for my taste.

It is garriath.

Then please, state a source. I'm more likely to agree with Vegor.

As for 'Viceroy,' we ought to consider a few things. TR is being made by nerds like us, agreed, but we're looking at an extremely different group of people for fans. This group will likely be relatively familiar with Star Wars, at the least. The similarities between Dres and the Trade Federation and enough that I really think we shouldn't try to draw any more attention to it.

[storm_crow]

this information was not made up by anyone from TR, and especially not from me...it may sound very old republic but hey! Of course, it is impossible to check if it follows the true official lore...but I would stick with these names anyways.

And by the way colo, I think the slave trade is one of the important merchandises that are being shiped from Tear.

[Vegor]

I think that discussion is better for another thread. This thread is for the sole purpose of gathering as much solid Dres lore (either original or 'officially' from TR's Dres lore people) as possible to use as a reference for things that have anything to do with the Dres. We should keep it as clean as possible.

[Colostriph]

KK, continueing on my good friend's Dres info thread. I've been permited to release the secrets of the Dres vampire line:

Now, this doesn't come from official lore as far as I know. This is a completely new add-on to TR. The good thing is, this isn't contradictive.

The Dres vampire line was founded by the first of it's vampires, and a councilor of Dres, Kizumet-e. After he became a vampire, all the rest followed after him. I will edit this post to give further info on kizumet-e when I am notified.

Anyhow, the present council resides somewhere in Tear. From what I heard it will most likely be the catacombs beneath the city. The vampire council is completely secretive. About 95% or more of the dres population know about it. I presume that the Temple has not yet found out for they've been pre-occupied with Dagoth Ur.

Each councilor will have somewhat of a mouth, as in Telvanni. However, they communicate with their mouths in a unique fashion. They communicate with their mouths via a mind link. While the mind link is in motion, it sometimes has a negative after effect on the mouth's mind.

Mouths under the mind link often go mad, or maybe even lose emotion, while the vampire host is not effected what so ever. All mouths are considered, to the modern, public view, as the councilors and political leaders of House Dres. None but the mouths, and perhaps a few other Important dunmer of dres know of the vampire council. Another group that may know of this vampiric secret are the other vampire clans themselves.

The vampire council's goal is the basic goal of house Dres: return morrowind to the way it was meant to be. They want to rid the land of the imperials and outlanders, and restore the ancient ways of worshiping daedra and ancestors.

I am still not certain what their stance is on the temple, but I'm very sure that the council knows nothing more about the Nervarine incident then any other house.

Finally, I do not see the vampire line as an evil faction. I view these vampires as great masterminds of Dres. Unlike other vampire clans, they do not see dunmer as an inferior race, for they seem to have realized that they are no more then dunmer, blessed dunmer I might add, themselves. They rule Dres the way Dres is supposed to be ruled. In past insights I saw them as a corrupt society, in which theyare and aren't at the same time.

Edit: The Vampire Council DOES have physical contacts. It is menshionned in the letter "A game at dinner". Not only do they have links to the other clans, but they have spies out there too (though all operate without the knowledge of who they're really working for).

Also, they have Cattel, like the other clans, but I am sure these cattel are specifically chosen, for specific purposes (they only want mer). With their political grip, they most probably do not have much problems with choosing the right cattel, and the right new members of their gloomy council.

The mouths provide the council directly with any material needs they might need. This includes cattle.

I will update this post when more info has been supplied.

[Nomadic1]

If you haven't yet noticed, the family name "Dren" for Orvas Dren, resembles greatly to "dres". I believe this to be because the dren family maybe comes from a dres family. Of course, as in Vvardenfell, not all of subhouse Dren are dunmer loyal *spits on Vendam*.

Haven't posted in months since I can't do anything for TR, but I'll say this is wrong. The name "Dren" is from "House Drenim", not "House Dres". House Drenim was one of the houses which united to form Great House Hlaalu, whereas House Dres seems to have been formed (or at least led) by Dres Khumizet-e (or whatever his name is)

[Colostriph]

Thnx. I'll modify it immediately.

[Túrelio]

That doesn't mean that House Drenim didn't itself originate from Dres, or perhaps from Dren then Dres, far to much speculation however to be certain.

Colostriph, I like your vision of the Dres Vampire Clan, it is well thought out, and has similar ideas that I know that Yinnie and before her Munkie were throwing around. I hope you don't mind if I offer some of my "insight" in the near future on it, I had some rather interesting plots for the sub-faction, including detailed and(IMO) interesting characters.

[Colostriph]

Thanks. Unfortunately Map 6 quests are like a year ahead of us. And I thought it was Majra and Nazz (Lord Gallant?) that were now in charge of Dres.


And these things are what Nazz told me.I just made it known. And about Munkie, is he still around?

[storm_crow]

just so you'd know, Jacurutu asked me to contact Mr. Munkie when I started writing my book, umm, well let's just say a few weeks have passed since I PMed him and a few months have past since he lst posted, I don't think we'll be hearing of him any time soon...to bad, I've been tolled he's something of a lore specialist.

[Nomadic1]

That doesn't mean that House Drenim didn't itself originate from Dres, or perhaps from Dren then Dres, far to much speculation however to be certain.

Not necessarily. We know that House Drenim managed to win a war at Morag Beran against the precursor to House Redoran (House Retherein; speculative but fairly solid), which seems to suggest that House Drenim was located on the west or northwest of House Hlaalu's traditional territory, which makes it highly improbable House Drenim and House Dres had anything to do with each other, considering House Dres is based far away at Tear, across the Argon Jungle.

[Túrelio]

just so you'd know, Jacurutu asked me to contact Mr. Munkie when I started writing my book, umm, well let's just say a few weeks have passed since I PMed him and a few months have past since he lst posted, I don't think we'll be hearing of him any time soon...to bad, I've been tolled he's something of a lore specialist.

That is because Munkie is no longer with us, and if he is he doesn't participate much anymore. If you want to talk to him you should try emailing or using MSN. He is very knowledgeable about Dres, but also very specific on how he sees things that could be seen in other ways, if you know what I mean.

House ties and such could go back even before the Great Houses had settled themselves into their areas, or even established themselves as Great Houses, although your idea here has alot of support so I'd be more inclined to support it. The Dres = Dren idea was just an example of how its possible that certain houses would have split from others, including the Great Houses. However seeing this it was probably a bad example, a better one is Minor House Hlaalo being a family split from Great House Hlaalu, yet still part of the Great House.

[sirwootalot123]

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but wasn't dres only two minor houses (Alt-Julan and Gah'Kogo) that later merged together? As opposed to the other houses I mean, which are comprised of many, many minor houses.

[Anonymous]

I don't think viceroy would be a very good word to use. In the British empire, a viceroy was a person in place of the king or queen in a foreign country. This would not apply to the leader of a Great House particularly Dres.

[Sload]

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but wasn't dres only two minor houses (Alt-Julan and Gah'Kogo) that later merged together? As opposed to the other houses I mean, which are comprised of many, many minor houses.

I doubt that. Both of those actually mean something - High Good and Great Unbreakable respectively, house names don't mean anything. They also use a hyphen and an apostrophe, unlike every other house I've ever heard of.

[Haplo]

Um... Julan means benefit, so alt-julan would mean good-benefit, if alt means good.

EDIT -

So alt-julan would mean 'high benefit'.

[Sload]

Alt is high, I mixed up jul and julan.

[Gez]

Okay, folk. What do we do about House Dres' ranks? I want a list of ten ranks, from lowly grunt to grand-high poobah, with loretastic names for our Dres guys.

As you may have noticed, we have an Indoril and a Dres on map1, and when they present themselves, they say things such as "I am Joe Thingie, noble and ... of Great House Dres".

Of course we can write specific dialogue for map1's token Dres and Indoril, so that they won't use the generic "I am %Name, %Class and %Rank of %Faction" response. But that would just be dodging the issue, rather than addressing it.

So, a rank list is needed for them. Do we use the one above with "Vizier" and "Viceroy"? These two aren't loretastic enough to my taste, but if there's a consensus for them it'll do.

And long live cut and paste.

[Nomadic1]

I reckon go with the first post, just don't have vizier or viceroy. I know (or at least think I do) why they were chosen, but the logic behind the choice to me is very lacking.

Unfortunately, I can't think of anything to replace them with at the present time. But it probably doesn't matter if we have those titles for Map 1 since there wouldn't be any Dres councillors anywhere outside Map 6.

[Gez]

There's also the bit about vampires and Mouths. Do we keep it? If so, we'll need at least three ranks for that, corresponding to, Mouth, Vampire, and Grandmaster.

Therefore, I propose this (numbers are what's used by the game, remember that not-a-member is rank -1):

0. Hireling
1. Retainer
2. Oathman
3. Lawman
4. Kinsman
5. Adept
6. Mouth
7. Overseer
8. Taskmaster
9. Grandmaster

So we have our Mouths at rank 6 (for Telvanni, it's rank 4, but they don't have a vampirism-related secret to hold). The rank of Overseer would be the last reachable by a non-vampire, high enough to be above the Mouths, but still below the true masters of the House. Dres Vampires would be Overseers themselves, or Taskmaster, the rank at which they get a Mouth. The Grandmaster, of course, would be the mightiest Dres vampire.

What does everybody think?

[Nomadic1]

Sounds good. Just "taskmaster" seems out of place if they are high ranking councillor Dres nobility.

[Gez]

Oooh, what about "Mentor"? Mouth and Mentor, that goes well together.

[Nomadic1]

Yeah, that sounds good

[Gez]

Okay. Hireling / Retainer / Oathman / Lawman / Kinsman / Adept / Mouth / Overseer / Mentor / Grandmaster it will be, at least as a placeholder, until I get more input on the topic.

Now, I'll direct the attention to the Indoril Lore thread...

[Harke the Apostle]

How about 'Nestor' instead of 'Mentor'. Its meaning is the same, but its usage is slightly less common, as befits a high rank.
I don't know about 'Hireling', but if the rank exists in another Vanilla Morrowind House, then I am ok with that.

[Tyrion]

I thought Mouth was unique to House Telvanni?

[Gez]

I thought Mouth was unique to House Telvanni?

That's because House Dres is not present on Vvardenfell. See Colostriph's post above.

KK, continueing on my good friend's Dres info thread. I've been permited to release the secrets of the Dres vampire line:

Now, this doesn't come from official lore as far as I know. This is a completely new add-on to TR. The good thing is, this isn't contradictive.

The Dres vampire line was founded by the first of it's vampires, and a councilor of Dres, Kizumet-e. After he became a vampire, all the rest followed after him. I will edit this post to give further info on kizumet-e when I am notified.

Anyhow, the present council resides somewhere in Tear. From what I heard it will most likely be the catacombs beneath the city. The vampire council is completely secretive. About 95% or more of the dres population know about it. I presume that the Temple has not yet found out for they've been pre-occupied with Dagoth Ur.

Each councilor will have somewhat of a mouth, as in Telvanni. However, they communicate with their mouths in a unique fashion. They communicate with their mouths via a mind link. While the mind link is in motion, it sometimes has a negative after effect on the mouth's mind.

Mouths under the mind link often go mad, or maybe even lose emotion, while the vampire host is not effected what so ever. All mouths are considered, to the modern, public view, as the councilors and political leaders of House Dres. None but the mouths, and perhaps a few other Important dunmer of dres know of the vampire council. Another group that may know of this vampiric secret are the other vampire clans themselves.

The vampire council's goal is the basic goal of house Dres: return morrowind to the way it was meant to be. They want to rid the land of the imperials and outlanders, and restore the ancient ways of worshiping daedra and ancestors.

I am still not certain what their stance is on the temple, but I'm very sure that the council knows nothing more about the Nervarine incident then any other house.

Finally, I do not see the vampire line as an evil faction. I view these vampires as great masterminds of Dres. Unlike other vampire clans, they do not see dunmer as an inferior race, for they seem to have realized that they are no more then dunmer, blessed dunmer I might add, themselves. They rule Dres the way Dres is supposed to be ruled. In past insights I saw them as a corrupt society, in which theyare and aren't at the same time.

Edit: The Vampire Council DOES have physical contacts. It is menshionned in the letter "A game at dinner". Not only do they have links to the other clans, but they have spies out there too (though all operate without the knowledge of who they're really working for).

Also, they have Cattel, like the other clans, but I am sure these cattel are specifically chosen, for specific purposes (they only want mer). With their political grip, they most probably do not have much problems with choosing the right cattel, and the right new members of their gloomy council.

The mouths provide the council directly with any material needs they might need. This includes cattle.

I will update this post when more info has been supplied.

[Tyrion]

Ok, I just saw Mouth in the list and wondered...

[El Scumbago]

Just a question. Is it lore that Dres are vamp-fans? Do we really want to force the player into becoming a vampire in order to ascend to the higher steps of the hierarchy ladder?

Plus, vampires only care for feeding and hiding, how can we turn them into such social creatures?

[Gez]

Just a question. Is it lore that Dres are vamp-fans?

Now, this doesn't come from official lore as far as I know. This is a completely new add-on to TR. The good thing is, this isn't contradictive.

As far as lore goes, we only have A Game at Dinner to learn about vampires and Dres.

Do we really want to force the player into becoming a vampire in order to ascend to the higher steps of the hierarchy ladder?

I don't know about "we", but I know that "me" wants it. Getting "we"'s opinion is what I'm trying to do, but "we" is elusive and doesn't care to post, usually. "We"'s mostly a lurker.

Plus, vampires only care for feeding and hiding, how can we turn them into such social creatures?

Dres vampires do their socializing by proxy. Telepathic link to a Mouth.

It would be quite possible, and quite cool, to make that when we go there. Telepathy is very easy in Morrowind, it's just a question of scripted ForceGreetings.

Anyway, it would make the Dres faction really stand out, which is cool and great and nice. Remember we also have four other houses, so I don't think it will be such a sacrifice to have a house that restricts advancement depending on vampiric status.

However, the finer points of Dres customs can be discussed laters. All I need for now is a definitive (or at least, semi-definitive) list of rank titles; the rest will follow when we get to design NPCs and quests for Map6...

[Lud]

Dres vampirism is something that we can have a looooong debate about later.

Suggestion:

Hireling
Retainer
Oathman
Lawman
Kinsman
Bloodkin
Mouth
Overseer
Nestor
Grandmaster

[Gez]

I'll suppose you meant "Mentor" rather than "Nestor"

Alright, so we have:

0. Hireling
1. Retainer
2. Oathman
3. Lawman
4. Kinsman
5. Bloodkin
6. Mouth
7. Overseer
8. Mentor
9. Grandmaster

I like it.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Totally new here, but I've been on the official ES forums for quite a while.

Anyway, as a total newbie here I have only this thread to go on for your plans for House Dres, but I thought I'd put forward the few thoughts I'd had to myself in the past about House Dres (and also the vampires issue)

With no prior knowledge of your plans, this could all be just a waste for you guys, I don't know. But any comments would be appreciated.

Anyway: I was thinking, as Dres are such a 'controversial' house, what with being big on the slavery etc. I thought it would be a good storyline in which to give the player many choices with consequences, with the player choosing between more radical / more restrained members of the House as they advance.

In addition, the way I saw it (this may conflict pretty much 100% with all that's been said about Dres vampires in this thread, but hey, I'm just throwing out ideas) the vampires hinted at in 'A Game at Dinner' were very much a secretive part of the Dres society, and IMO don't appear to be a major part of the Council, seeing as the vampires have to use "their influence" over the council, not their power in the council to influence House Dres. (This is all just the way I read it, though)

Because of this, I'd have one or two councillors vampires, but probably not all.

[blackbird]

I'm buming this interesting thread wit hthose links. I don't know in which way they are correct. There isn't much to find about dres architecture.
http://til.gamingsource.net/fsg/blackwindarticle1.shtml
http://til.gamingsource.net/fsg/lordhlaaluarticle1.shtml (mentions also house indoril).
http://til.gamingsource.net/fsg/fiefarticle1.shtml
Vivec: House Hlaalu represents the future of the Dunmer, integrated into the sophisticated mainstream of the traditionless, raceless, godless culture of the Empire. House Dres represents the past of pre-Tribunal Great House culture, a persistent tradition of Daedra- and ancestor-worshipping civilized Dunmer clans. And I even love the Ashlanders for their preservation of the most ancient barbarian tribal traditions of the Dunmer who first settled Morrowind."

[Jale]

Seeing as we are discussing this a lot in the Models section, I thought it might be a good idea to discuss a few things here which don't relate precisely to models.

Here are some thoughts I have had in the other discussion.

Lord of the Manor
I think every town without exception should have a ruling family. Not every 'lord of the manor' need be a councillor, but every councillor must be a 'lord of the manor'. If we are still using the ranks in the first post, these would be the Alt-Julan. Around them would be their entourage and family, probably quite an extended one. Minor nobles could probably exist in larger towns too, but these should have a purpose: like in Tear, though the Viceroy (if we are still using that...) would be the top dog, there could be another manor for the person who is in charge of the port's everyday business.

What's the point? Well it gives a nice feel of oppression to have each town run by a despot who is essentially the law unto himself. In addition, we can have a few extra bits attached to this, such as:

Public Slavery
The problem with Dres is that they are supposed to be the most prolific users of slaves in the province, but it would kind of be silly to have every single house equipped with a slave pit or cells. Most commoners wouldn't need a slave the whole time, perhaps once a week to clean and every now and again to do some heavy lifting. The answer to this is public slavery.

The principle of Public Slavery relies on the Lord of the Manor idea. The head of the town would provide a number of slaves, who are kept in a public pit available for rental. From a play point of view, this would mean you can pay a fee and a slave would be brought up for you to use until about 6pm each day, when the slave would be told by the AI to go back to the pit. It wouldn't have much use other than flavour.

In addition there could be some better public slaves, like accountants or scholars. These would be provided by the lord and would offer their services, but still obviously be slaves.

Dres Attitude to Slavery
I think the Dres attitude needs to be a bit more complex than evident in Morrowind. One thing I think we should do is have about 50% of the slaves going around without slave bracers: rather they have been broken mentally through conditioning, and dialogue topics will hint as such (having an imperial tell you how wonderful their Dres masters are...creepy). Having slaves treated as appliances would be a good idea: looking good because they are part of the furniture, and kept in passable conditions when they are worthwhile. If they are worthless slaves, then they would be subjected to horrible conditions. Just a bit more complex than people in cages with a big armband on (that always bored me in morrowind).

Dres Construction Style
We have pretty much established that most of the Dres set is going to be a retextured Velothi, and I don't see any real problems with this for your average joe Dres-man. For manors though I have been advocating hive-like subterranean places, built around a large central atrium that has stairs, but also balconies which allow the rich Dres to levitate around with enchanted rings. Why? Well it shows off a level of opulence, that they are so wealthy they would spend loads just to not climb stairs. Also there would be a fair number of slaves around, and this way the nobles can bypass locked doors which would be used to keep slaves where they are wanted.

It's also a very logical style when considering other dunmer architectures. The Velothi style is largely made for underground construction, as is the Stronghold and Redoran styles. This indicates that they well know how to construct in such a way. In addition the climate supports it: They live in a humid rainforest. By building below ground you escape most of the heat, as well as avoiding the hassle of deforesting a large area.

Finally its damn fun. Underground construction for manors always makes for the most interesting buidings, I find. It means that you don't need to find much space above ground, and you need not worry about exteriors.

[Tyrion]

Wouldn't it be a bit too simple to steal one of the noble's levitation rings? I think that's what made the Telvanni scheme work: Telvanni wizards are inheritly magical, Dres nobles are not. However, some of them are rumored to be vampires. I think if we make Dres manors more traditional and leave out the huge slave-hives and such, but make the manors of the really corrupt/evil/children of the night nobles the most hallucinatory, nightmarish hive like warren imaginable. This satisfies both parties, makes the Dres seem at least semi-normal on the surface and yet very dark underneath.

If that should have gone in the Dres architecture thread I apologize.