Indoril-Thirr Section


Uploaded new file and

Rot's picture

Uploaded new file and releasing -
Deleted bugged dialogue without IDs from "2017-01-19" version and pasted back in dialogue from "2016-10-27" version,
ESPs combined through a Mainland.esm dependency afterwards removed in WryeMash

I'm afraid the dialogue is

Atrayonis's picture

I'm afraid the dialogue is still partially without IDs. Almas Thirr topic for example, but some Greetings are without ID too.

A closer look shows that this happens because the NPCs don't exist anymore. For example, TR_m3_Sandor Ormero was replaced with TR_m3_Andor Orothi, so his dialogue is completely without ID filter. That's in no way automatically fixable, this will have to be done by hand.
Is there a list of which NPCs were replaced and with whom?

Same NPCs with changes in IDs

Rot's picture

Same NPCs with changes in IDs, the corresponding dialogue changes were logically not carried over,
Reapplied the apparent ID changes


to the older file and re-pasted dialogue, same process, version 2017-02-26

Int from 2014

Ragox's picture

My int that was approved back in 2014 "i3-763-Ind" is still not included in the most recent version. Is that normal or was it missed somehow?


Atrayonis's picture

After checking out new Almar Thirr, I was pretty surprised by the sheer size of the new interiors. The new canalworks and waistworks are about 1.25x to 1.5x the size of the previous version. The waistworks at least is bigger than the canton exterior. The old waitworks had Vivec canton size and as such fit the exterior. The new one is TARDIS-sized.

Is that deliberate? This can't be right.

My (admittedly biased)

Parker's picture

My (admittedly biased) opinion is that players will accept or not notice the size descrepancy. The liberties taken are reasonable, especeilly compared to something like Ald'ruhn-under-Skar.

The modder formerly known as Yeti.
Head of NPCs - Skyrim: Home of the Nords

As I have mentioned on

Gnomey's picture

As I have mentioned on Discord, I intend to do some work on this file, preferably still this week.
Unlike my original plan, the siltstrider and boat service will stay put. I opted against moving the siltstrider to the southern side of the canton, as I feel the most suitable (that is, lacking in obstacles and rapid elevation changes) routes for siltstriders all terminate at the shallower north end of the canton:
Destinations clockwise from top left: Gol Mok, Vhul, Aimrah, Hlan Oek
As both travel service providers are currently effectively consigned to their own somewhat secluded corners of Almas Thirr, however, I do intend to detail their surroundings a bit to make them more visually interesting and give arriving players a good first impression.

For the siltstrider platform, I intend to add fishing boats and gear, to imply that the platform is mostly used by the Velothi locals. I intend to make it look crowded and somewhat grimy, but naturally will try to avoid going overboard with the number of references.
For the boat landing, I intend to make it look a bit seedy, and ideally either add or move some outlander NPCs to it. (This could also be done later). It's strictly a place for loading and unloading cargo and stocking up on supplies, and isn't much used by the locals. The people who hang out there are mostly people who don't want to stick around.

Beyond that, if I have the time and energy, I intend to further detail Vhul and Felms Ithil (I think it was called), which I never really finished, and perhaps doing a bit of bug-fixing.

New file up top. Dropping

Gnomey's picture

New file up top.

Dropping this file for the night. (As I have a tendency to sit on files once I claim them, I figure it's better to only check out a file while I'm actually ready to work on it).

So far, I've mostly finished implementing the siltstrider landing, though there are still one or two kinks to be worked out.

-Added detailing to siltstrider landing
-Fixed a few placement errors around the siltstrider landing, such as a misaligned cliff mesh
-Adjusted the pathgridding accordingly

Still to be done on the landing:
-I forgot to moor one of the rowboats
-in one of the screenshots below, you might notice I used sacks as buoys. I'd like to know if the effect is convincing, in which case I'd probably want to create a new ID to that effect. Also, if I do make a new ID, should the buoy be a container, activator (so that it can be named) or a static?
-I'm tempted to add one or two NPCs to the landing area. Just to be sure, am I right in assuming that we haven't been keeping the number of NPCs consistent with the amount of housing available?
-I'm probably forgetting something else

And finally, some screenshots:

Full album here

Grabbing the file again. Will

Gnomey's picture

Grabbing the file again. Will update this post with progress at the end of the day.

Edit: Dropped the file again for the night. I'm not sure if I'll be able to work on this tomorrow.

I finished detailing the silt strider landing and the ship travel landing, and added one NPC. More on that below.
My question on the buoys still stands, and beyond that I still intend to add one or two NPCs to the silt strider landing, beyond any detailing and bug fixes outside of Almas Thirr I may still make.

Ship travel landing:

The new NPC is Udine Leland, a Breton sailor who made a short stop at Almas Thirr but quickly regretted the decision. I adjusted several stats to reflect her unusual situation, which I have -- for convenience and because I can -- posted below. As she is not supposed to be a long-term resident of Almas Thirr or Morrowind in general, I also felt the local dialogue to be out of place, and as such have written unique dialogue lines for her to block off most of the default lines, also posted below.

Adjusted AI fields:


Dialogue proposal:


Linked a new version of the

Rats's picture

Linked a new version of the file by sirrah with the misplaced pans and MT robes fixed.

Taking to fix a thing and

Rot's picture

Taking to fix a thing and merge the 2 old quests before the file becomes any more incompatible,
* no, actually, not taking - all dialogue sunken to bottom again. don't have time to figure this out now
* also don't take this file and put any work into it before that's fixed unless you know what to do
edit: dialogue fixed (but don't go thinking this is trivial or at all viable over more extensive edits, still now dealing with the consequences of the previous such fix), taking file for above changes

Dropping, - above dialogue

Rot's picture

- above dialogue positions fixed by pasting back dialogue from v.0114,
- both Dondril quests merged. Consider the "feral guar" and "Galoro Selvor" topics etc as part of the dialogue to be updated, whenever that happens
- reintroduced cell conditions lost in 2017-02-26 fix
(due to changes in Almas Thirr cell names, some because the name is now in caps and between brackets (??), others marked as "cut". also note that a bunch of "Roa Dyr" MH interiors have just been unlinked and left at that

Long ago it was mentioned

Rot's picture

Long ago it was mentioned that the Dondril palisade could be replaced with a single mesh: after some testing with G7's help it doesn't seem that this would do too much for FPS,
even the NPCs aren't the sole cause of performance drops, it could be some of the clutter items around them have poor models. On the other hand using optimised meshes for what little vanilla flora surrounds the village is a noticeable improvement.

Just to give an update for

Gnomey's picture

Just to give an update for folks who don't visit Discord, I had planned to do some work on this file this weekend, but due to a death within the family my schedule has become rather unpredictable. I still plan to have the work finished by Wednesday.

As to what I plan to do on the file, in order of priority:
-finish my work on Almas Thirr, which means adding two NPCs to the landing and adding some unique dialogue to Udine Leland.
-tidy up Felms Ithul
-do further work on Roa Dyr
-do further detailing work in Vhul and the ancestor shrines along Veloth's path
-break up some of the rock pile cliffs as I have in Old Ebonheart

Dropping this. I got

Gnomey's picture

Dropping this. I got relatively little done, but my Almas Thirr edits should be finished at least. It would be good if someone were to check over the file to make sure I didn't create another mess, but I think I'm good this time. I did forget to re-add the comments to the .esp, but they are just warnings not to load the file without TR_Mainland.cheeky

Added two NPCs, TR_M3_Revis and TR_M3_Galvi, to the siltstrider landing
Added dialogue to TR_M3_Undine Lelard. (See above for specific entries added).
-As there is no 'little advice' placeholder for Almas Thirr, I put the entry between the Map3 placeholder and the Dondril placeholder.
-I nestled the Morrowind Lore entry below the Tel Mothrivra end placeholder.
-I left out the My Trade entry as it isn't necessary. (There's no default entry to cover).

Should I take the file now

Parker's picture

Should I take the file now for my dialogue work, or would you rather wait to make your other changes? Or is there another step I am forgetting before I can take the file for dialouge?

The modder formerly known as Yeti.
Head of NPCs - Skyrim: Home of the Nords

I suppose I can claim this,

Parker's picture

I can claim this, right? I'll take care of Almas Thirr, give its interiors final names and update its dialogue. I'll try to do this in stages, so people can examine my work and spot any problems.

The modder formerly known as Yeti.
Head of NPCs - Skyrim: Home of the Nords

Sure. If it's not currently

Atrayonis's picture

Sure. If it's not currently checked you, any lead can claim whatever.

Just don't forget to load TR_Mainland.esp or .esm as well and you're good.

While you're at it you could

Ragox's picture

While you're at it you could also finalize the names and link the doors for the 2 interiors of the Velothi complex in Dondril.
"Dondril, TR_i3-781-Imp" should be named "Dondril, Hetman's House"
"Dondril, TR_i3-782-Imp" should be named "Dondril, Craftmer's Hall"

File has been updated. I

Parker's picture

File has been updated. I would appreciate someone making sure everything is in order with it before I proceed with dialogue changes.

The modder formerly known as Yeti.
Head of NPCs - Skyrim: Home of the Nords

I checked it out and, your

Atrayonis's picture

I checked it out and, your changes aside, it's pretty much as it was before. So all's well.

Updated. All my changes to

Parker's picture

Updated. All my changes to Almas Thirr should be done now. I'll take a short break before moving onto Dondril and Vhul. If anyone wants to work on this in the meantime, feel free to ask.

The modder formerly known as Yeti.
Head of NPCs - Skyrim: Home of the Nords

I would like to grab this

Gnomey's picture

I would like to grab this file if that's ok with you; there are still a few things on my to-do list to take care of:

-tidy up Felms Ithul
-do further work on Roa Dyr
-do further detailing work in Vhul and the ancestor shrines along Veloth's path
-break up some of the cobbled-together rock cliffs

Claiming (now that I finally

Gnomey's picture

Claiming (now that I finally have time)!

I will start by merging interiors as per this post and cleaning out unused interiors, and from there will carry out my plan as above:

-tidy up Felms Ithul
-do further work on Roa Dyr
-do further detailing work in Vhul and the ancestor shrines along Veloth's path
-break up some of the cobbled-together rock cliffs
+replace any deprecated books as per this post

New file at top. All

Gnomey's picture

New file up top. All interiors I listed are merged and linked. On a whim, I`ve done some detailing for Vhul, which was lacking it, though I`m trying to keep the number of references down. Now the main area that`s lacking is by the vendors out front.

New file up top. It's in a

Gnomey's picture

New file up top. It's in a messy state -- probably dirty cells, placements from orangification still need correcting for the most part, some ground textures still need to be replaced, to name a few -- but I haven't uploaded in a while so I figured I should at least show what I have.

I have, however, finished widening Veloth's path, though I will only test the results tomorrow.

I'll probably leave it for

Gnomey's picture

I'll probably leave it for later; I haven't tried out mass replacing stuff yet. But we'll see.

New file at top. Fixed the

Gnomey's picture

New file at top. Fixed the dialogue, cleaned out empty cells, tidied up Veloth's path some more, did more fixing of placement errors and replaced textures.
I'm going back to a daily grab and drop schedule on this file, as I find I get more work done that way and, more importantly, the file isn't held up if other people need to work on it. As such, I'm dropping this file for the night, and if nobody else needs to work on it will probably grab it again tomorrow.

At minimum, my plan for tomorrow is to write and ideally implement replacements for the existing Felms Ithul dialogue, from back when it was an MH settlement. That goes along with removing references to preexisting NPCs and cells so that their removal won't cause any issues. (Though I'll probably edit the NPCs rather than remove them).

Feel free to keep grabbing

Parker's picture

Feel free to keep grabbing the file, Gnomey. My week at school is the busiest it will be this semester, so I won't have time to grab this for the Dondril and Vhul work I want to do (I should be able to make more progress on Ebon Tower interiors. Those are easier to drop in and out of while working on other things). In fact, I should probably handle Vhul's dialogue through the new Asset dialogue claiming process, right?

I assume you will be fixing the Dondril quest that involve the old MH manor that became Felms Ithul? The one with the Guar/Vhelk pen?

The modder formerly known as Yeti.
Head of NPCs - Skyrim: Home of the Nords

Huh, the dialogue is proving

Gnomey's picture

Huh, the dialogue is proving to be a bit of a sticking point, hence the delay. Merging the dialogue back in seems to have wiped the IDs for Aanthirin after all, so I'll have to see if I can find a solution for that. The feral guar quest also doesn't seem directly transferrable to velk; I think a more interesting quest can and needs to be made of it for it to work for velk, but am trying to keep things simple. I'll handle the quest rewriting via an asset claim.
For the time being, here's the non-(directly)-quest-related dialogue connected to Droth(r)il Estate anon Felms Ithul:


What do you mean "wiped the

Atrayonis's picture

What do you mean "wiped the IDs"? You remembered to load the Dialogue esp AFTER the landscape esp, right?

Grabbing the file to continue

Gnomey's picture

Grabbing the file to continue work. I'll update this post when I drop it again.

Edit: Dropping this file for the night. Rough changelog:
-finished replacing ground textures
-removed the following interiors: 'Drothil Estate, Guard Tower', 'Drothil Estate, Indoril Watchtower', 'Drothil Estate, Manor'
-changed Droth(r)il Estate's Indoril guard captain into its priest, changing his AI package, moving him to his house, setting ownership, changing his stats, etc. Also changed his two unique lines:
[Greeting 7] "Are there any disturbances on the Thirr River you'd like to report?" -> "You are far from your people, outlander. What do you seek?"
[background] Line about being the local guard captain and overseeing shipping I forgot to copy -> "I am a priest. I keep the good Velothi of Felms Ithul on the right path, tend to their wounds, and lend my knowledge where it is needed."

-after checking whether it was used in any script or anything (it wasn't), I took the liberty of changing 'Almas Thirr, Dralas Vando's Tradehouse' to simply 'Almas Thirr, Tradehouse', reflecting that Velothi don't traditionally own private property or businesses as such.
-I'm halfway through fixing the instances of orange moss in planters. I'll admit there were more than I'd expected; Aanthirin loves its planters. I've generally replaced the orange moss with weeping veil.

There's still one Droth(r)il interior I'm unsure how to place; it's a small shack. I feel as though, rather than add it back to Felm Ithul, which might make the settlement seem a bit too large, I'll find a safe (not in the shadow of the Daedric ruin) spot of coast to place the shack. Other than that, the Felms Ithul mess is more or less resolved, though it still has its old NPCs aside from the priest.
I am not treating replacing Felm Ithul's dialogue and quest as a priority for this release; my main priority now is fixing placement errors, sorting out Felms Ithul will only be done if I have time left after that. (And technically I'm well past my deadline as it is...)

Grabbing the file to fix two

Gnomey's picture

Grabbing the file to fix two unfiltered dialogue lines. I'll also check that the CSV is still up-to-date and will start actually remembering to package it with my files.

Incidentally, there's

Atrayonis's picture

Incidentally, there's something else to do with Indoril-Thirr eventually, and this is a good as time to mention it as any: there's a new road to go south to Lake Andaram to Aimrah.
Lake Andaram #2 looks to be in a good enough shape that sooner rather than later we can merge it, and that means that Indoril-Thirr should have this road too.

Ah, good point, that shouldn

Gnomey's picture

Ah, good point, that shouldn't be too hard to add.

I've dropped the file again, now packaged with the updated CSV and with the dialogue fixes. Unfortunately, I probably won't get much else done before Friday.

Almas Thirr Bugs

Ragox's picture

I just took a thorough look at Almas Thirr and noticed the following bugs: